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Old 01-16-2008, 03:43 PM   #21
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Good read. I wish I had been into trading more early on. I had bought a few bootlegs pre 99 and downloaded a lot of songs off of napster but the first tapes I got were Colluzi's 3.7.99 and 3.14.99 tapes from the person I sat with at Listener Supported.
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Old 01-16-2008, 04:17 PM   #22
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Either there was a lot more SBD stuff out there that got buried, or a lot of people BSing about stuff that didn't really exist. Pretty sad either way.

And I'll reiterate that I think any SBDs that have made their way out should be free to trade. Other bands are more lenient than this. Does anybody even know the real reason why we can't anymore? Or has it just been taken as common practice for so long that nobody really questions it. If I understand correctly it was a combination of a)Bagby no longer being able to let everybody who wanted to patch into the board because there were just too many fans at that time, and rather than pick and choose, they closed it off to everybody b)bootlegs being more common, and not wanting to give people access to good quality recordings that they could just turn around and sell illegally. I may be wrong on this though.

If those are the reasons, fine, but if a source happens to get out, can't they just shrug it off? Not like there aren't hundreds of other shows they can release and make a profit off of. Or are they worried if it's allowed then people are going to try harder to pick up the SBDs somehow?
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Old 01-16-2008, 04:47 PM   #23
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Either there was a lot more SBD stuff out there that got buried, or a lot of people BSing about stuff that didn't really exist. Pretty sad either way.

And I'll reiterate that I think any SBDs that have made their way out should be free to trade. Other bands are more lenient than this. Does anybody even know the real reason why we can't anymore? Or has it just been taken as common practice for so long that nobody really questions it. If I understand correctly it was a combination of a)Bagby no longer being able to let everybody who wanted to patch into the board because there were just too many fans at that time, and rather than pick and choose, they closed it off to everybody b)bootlegs being more common, and not wanting to give people access to good quality recordings that they could just turn around and sell illegally. I may be wrong on this though.

If those are the reasons, fine, but if a source happens to get out, can't they just shrug it off? Not like there aren't hundreds of other shows they can release and make a profit off of. Or are they worried if it's allowed then people are going to try harder to pick up the SBDs somehow?

I am sure at this point there is just a lot of stuff that has been "lost" over the years. People moved away from DMB or had/have things they don't really pay much attention to anymore. In the past I am sure there was stuff people didn't spread to a lot of others. I am sure some people didn't want to lose hook ups/contacts and, of course, this (the DMB community not this board) community had people who decided who deserved what.

and I haven't looked at the policy in years...does it say post 95 SBDs cannot be traded or does it just say they will not allow people to tape from the SBD? I always thought it said the latter.

When I look at other bands that allow/allowed taping and have a similar size following I feel like there is a lot more of an open attitude when it comes to trading SBDs from the entire career of the band...I'm not bitching about DMB's taping policy (before someone flips out) either...just making an observation.

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Old 01-16-2008, 04:50 PM   #24
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Either there was a lot more SBD stuff out there that got buried, or a lot of people BSing about stuff that didn't really exist. Pretty sad either way.

And I'll reiterate that I think any SBDs that have made their way out should be free to trade. Other bands are more lenient than this. Does anybody even know the real reason why we can't anymore? Or has it just been taken as common practice for so long that nobody really questions it. If I understand correctly it was a combination of a)Bagby no longer being able to let everybody who wanted to patch into the board because there were just too many fans at that time, and rather than pick and choose, they closed it off to everybody b)bootlegs being more common, and not wanting to give people access to good quality recordings that they could just turn around and sell illegally. I may be wrong on this though.

If those are the reasons, fine, but if a source happens to get out, can't they just shrug it off? Not like there aren't hundreds of other shows they can release and make a profit off of. Or are they worried if it's allowed then people are going to try harder to pick up the SBDs somehow?
Going back to my Genesis trading, board tapes have appeared in the trading pool only few only years ago. There were some great gems out there for fans if they had the right connections they could get a copy. Actually many of those board tapes were either stolen from the archives or borrowed, copied, then returned without them knowing. They put the idea of selling board tapes was put out there but that will never happen (as much as many of us fans want it to, they have done some of the work already, why not finish it?), but when these boards leak its not a major deal anymore, management hasn't stepped in and they don't seem to care. The hoarding attitude has sorta died as the bigger traders have been more open rather than holding on to what they have.
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Old 01-16-2008, 04:55 PM   #25
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and I haven't looked at the policy in years...does it say post 95 SBDs cannot be traded or does it just say they will not allow people to tape from the SBD? I always thought it said the latter.
This is all I found on their site, just says no soundboard patches, I guess people don't want to piss off management by spreading any boards that came after the policy change.

"Dave Matthews Band allows audiotaping at almost every live performance. We feel that each show is unique and want to offer our fans the opportunity to recreate the live experience through the audio reproduction of our shows. At all taping authorized performances, tapers can tape from any ticketed seating location in the venue. Also, for many of these performances tapers are able to purchase tickets for a specially designated taper section, normally located immediately behind the soundboard. No soundboard or power feeds are provided.

Taping is limited to audio-only, using only microphones. Wireless receivers are strictly prohibited. We sincerely appreciate all of our fans, so we ask that you please be considerate of those around you by not obstructing anyone else's view of the performance.

When taper tickets are available for a particular show, they are released concurrently with general seating tickets. To obtain designated taper tickets, contact the venue's box office.

All recordings must be used for personal use or trading only. Selling or commercializing any recording is illegal and will jeopardize taping privileges for everyone. Please read our Bootleg Statement for more information.

In addition to helping fans recreate the live experience, we hope tape trading will foster greater interaction within the fan community. Any method of trading that does not involve personal fan interaction defeats the spirit of this goal of the taping policy and is not authorized. In particular, posting audio or video files on web sites for streaming to or downloading by the public, is not authorized."
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:13 PM   #26
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Does anybody even know the real reason why we can't anymore? Or has it just been taken as common practice for so long that nobody really questions it. If I understand correctly it was a combination of a)Bagby no longer being able to let everybody who wanted to patch into the board because there were just too many fans at that time, and rather than pick and choose, they closed it off to everybody b)bootlegs being more common, and not wanting to give people access to good quality recordings that they could just turn around and sell illegally. I may be wrong on this though.
No, that is exactly correct.

There was a huge bootleg shit storm that dmb led that sued many smaller record stores that were illegally selling bootlegs to make an example. I remember being in high school and getting shit from the local record store and friends because they knew I was a dmb fan, and everyone hated dmb for blocking their ability to buy/sell boots (keep in mind this was before the internet enabled us to easily d/l shows. so, that was the only way 99% of people knew how to get live tapes).

That is the main reason why dmb stopped letting people patch out of the board. But, it was also because so many people wanted patches and it became more of an annoyance to bagby. But, the main reason was to only allow aud recordings to keep the quality down and thus make them less desireable to sell. The begining of Cap$haw?

My memory on this stuff is fading, but I believe that was after NYE 1994. Prior to that there were some shows that were out of control. I think 9/28/94 had a huge chain. And, a lot of those shows got chopped because bagby wouldn't change his dats, since he was the lead deck, when his tape ran out, the source was cut to all subsequent decks.

But, bagby still allowed some of the tapers he knew the best to patch up until March 1995 (which isn't uncommon. The Dead stopped sbd patches, but still allowed certain tapers to have them until the end). Like Travitz at the Tower Theatre. We also have sbds of both roseland shows. This is a guess, but I know those roseland shows were widely sold, so I'd guess someone told Bagby to stop ALL sbds patches after that. 3/8/95 was the last sbd he allowed.

I'm pretty sure any other **true** sbd we have was either a copy made for a friend by someone in the band or from a multi band show. No other direct sbds made from someone patching into the band's board (2-5-99 was made from another in house sbd made by an employee at the oakdale, not the band's board).

Some sbds are okay to trade. Bagby told travitz it was fine to trade the 97 dave and tim boards. 2-5-99 is fine to trade at this point. The band isn't going to raise a storm on that. There is a reason everyone has them. Most dmb centered trading sites don't want them on their torrent sites because of the official trading policy's stance on post 1995 boards (added to the LWS saga). The band is so generous to us, and why upset that?

I don't think the band really cares about Post 95 sbds now. In this day in age most people who care are internet savy enough to find what they want and are not paying $50 for bootlegs at the local mom and pop record store. They can d/l them for free. Obviously the band's mgmt wants to limit these things as not to saturate the market with free goodies when they need to run a buisness. But, for the most part, it's not a big deal anymore (IEMs are completely different).

Everyone seems to assumes there is a ton of stuff still in the community. There may be alot of monitor mixes/alds/iems hiding, but not many true sbds that aren't spread (or that are outside a circle of 4 or 5 people that could ever spread). There's what, like 10 post 1997 sbds out that everyone has? Most people that have others aren't in the community anymore or don't care enough to get them out. We have most of it.

Also, people always bitch about horders, but if you had a connection giving you videos or sbds (and probably tickets and back stage passes and such) why would you want to fuck that up? Would you risk it to spread a few things to mostly ungrateful message board kids? Probably not.
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:18 PM   #27
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This is all I found on their site, just says no soundboard patches, I guess people don't want to piss off management by spreading any boards that came after the policy change.

"Dave Matthews Band allows audiotaping at almost every live performance. We feel that each show is unique and want to offer our fans the opportunity to recreate the live experience through the audio reproduction of our shows. At all taping authorized performances, tapers can tape from any ticketed seating location in the venue. Also, for many of these performances tapers are able to purchase tickets for a specially designated taper section, normally located immediately behind the soundboard. No soundboard or power feeds are provided.

Taping is limited to audio-only, using only microphones. Wireless receivers are strictly prohibited. We sincerely appreciate all of our fans, so we ask that you please be considerate of those around you by not obstructing anyone else's view of the performance.

When taper tickets are available for a particular show, they are released concurrently with general seating tickets. To obtain designated taper tickets, contact the venue's box office.

All recordings must be used for personal use or trading only. Selling or commercializing any recording is illegal and will jeopardize taping privileges for everyone. Please read our Bootleg Statement for more information.

In addition to helping fans recreate the live experience, we hope tape trading will foster greater interaction within the fan community. Any method of trading that does not involve personal fan interaction defeats the spirit of this goal of the taping policy and is not authorized. In particular, posting audio or video files on web sites for streaming to or downloading by the public, is not authorized."
Yea, the policy is fairly outdated. I think they got rid of the taper's section entirely after 2000. I don't remember a taper's section after that tour (except Red Rocks 05, but that wasn't really a section, they just let people tape from behind the board).

they used to have a pretty global statement on bootlegs on the old dmband.com. I see they mention a 'bootleg statement' here, is that still linked? I think that is where they talked about post 95 sbds.
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:19 PM   #28
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Was 7-30-03 the last to get out? I don't remember any others since, but I don't check like I used to.
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:32 PM   #29
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Direct patches were cut in early '95 because even back then the band/management were considering a live album, one more extensive than the live cuts from R2T that was released a little over a year earlier. So it only made sense from Cap$haw's point of view to cut ties to the multiple patches. I wouldn't doubt that RCA themselves MAY have even urged/suggested DMB to consider cutting them as well for that reason. Shows like 2/23/95(Sattelite Of Love) didn't end up in record stores 'till the end of 1995, and then you had 12/31/95(Puzzled) didn't end up in record stores 'till the summer of '96. DMB was cracking down on bootlegging but it wasn't the sole reason why tapers were not allowed a direct shot into the board. 1997 was the big crack down year on bootlegs, and of course the band finally released their first official live album that same year. The crew posted a few warnings on thier site and got a big response. Some kids made it thier mission to find stores that sold bootlegs and turn them into DMB. A few of those fans are still around today and are fairly close with the crew and management.
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:32 PM   #30
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Was 7-30-03 the last to get out? I don't remember any others since, but I don't check like I used to.
is that sleep train? I think that was the last that was widely spread.
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:36 PM   #31
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Direct patches were cut in early '95 because even back then the band/management were considering a live album, one more extensive than the live cuts from R2T that was released a little over a year earlier. So it only made sense from Cap$haw's point of view to cut ties to the multiple patches. I wouldn't doubt that RCA themselves MAY have even urged/suggested DMB to consider cutting them as well for that reason. Shows like 2/23/95(Sattelite Of Love) didn't end up in record stores 'till the end of 1995, and then you had 12/31/95(Puzzled) didn't end up in record stores 'till the summer of '96. DMB was cracking down on bootlegging but it wasn't the sole reason why tapers were not allowed a direct shot into the board. 1997 was the big crack down year on bootlegs, and of course the band finally released their first official live album that same year. The crew posted a few warnings on thier site and got a big response. Some kids made it thier mission to find stores that sold bootlegs and turn them into DMB. A few of those fans are still around today and are fairly close with the crew and management.
12/31/95 was fm sourced though, right? It wasn't until later that the prefm dats came out? I may be messing that up.

That's right, it was 97 was when they really went crazy on the bootlegs. But, you could still find them easily during 98. I remember still buying stuff into winter 98 in cambridge and seeing the foxboro shows out in stores long before the tapes spread in trading circles. It was around may 99 that I remember ftps getting really popular for lossless shows and never even thinking about buying bootlegs again.
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:38 PM   #32
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There was a store here that sold shows on cassette for years. $5 per tape...basically 10 a show. I remember when shows on CD-Rs started popping up there.
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:40 PM   #33
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12/31/95 was fm sourced though, right? It wasn't until later that the prefm dats came out? I may be messing that up.

That's right, it was 97 was when they really went crazy on the bootlegs. But, you could still find them during 98. I remember still buying stuff into winter 98 and seeing the foxboro shows out in stores long before the tapes spread in trading circles. It was a round may 99 that I remember ftps getting really popular for lossless shows.
Yeah, I was still finding stuff at my local record store in 99.

Direct Connect was an amazing thing when everyone started using it. I was obsessed with downloading shows in 2000.
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:41 PM   #34
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There was a store here that sold shows on cassette for years. $5 per tape...basically 10 a show. I remember when shows on CD-Rs started popping up there.
I remember buying a lot of phish shows on tape. Some sbds that I've never seen spread direct sourced to lossless
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:43 PM   #35
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12/31/95 was fm sourced though, right? It wasn't until later that the prefm dats came out? I may be messing that up.

That's right, it was 97 was when they really went crazy on the bootlegs. But, you could still find them during 98. I remember still buying stuff into winter 98 and seeing the foxboro shows out in stores long before the tapes spread in trading circles. It was a round may 99 that I remember ftps getting really popular for lossless shows.
Yeah, 12/31/95 sounded like it was recorded under water. It was the radio-rip. Very flat and wavy. 9/28/94 which was listed as The Vogue in Indianapolis on the back, and they even had a couple of the song titles wrong. That was one of the first I saw in stores. Not saying it was the first ever, just saying it was the first I myself saw for bootlegs. Then 1/26/95(Live & Dreaming), and the compiliation bootleg "Swept Away" was widely spread. The most commonly sold/bought, from what I've seen over the years, was 1/26/95, Swept Away, and 2/24/95(With A Little Help From My Friends) - god the people that made these boots were morons.
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:45 PM   #36
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There was a store here that sold shows on cassette for years. $5 per tape...basically 10 a show. I remember when shows on CD-Rs started popping up there.
Yeah, there's a store here called "Headlines" that used to sell cassettes. Even as late as '99.
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:00 PM   #37
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Yeah, 12/31/95 sounded like it was recorded under water. It was the radio-rip. Very flat and wavy. 9/28/94 which was listed as The Vogue in Indianapolis on the back, and they even had a couple of the song titles wrong. That was one of the first I saw in stores. Not saying it was the first ever, just saying it was the first I myself saw for bootlegs. Then 1/26/95(Live & Dreaming), and the compiliation bootleg "Swept Away" was widely spread. The most commonly sold/bought, from what I've seen over the years, was 1/26/95, Swept Away, and 2/24/95(With A Little Help From My Friends) - god the people that made these boots were morons.


I remember Big Man On Campus (9/11/92) had like every track wrong. I was listening to all the songs and trying to figure out what the real titles were.

I think the first booleg I bought was 2/4/94 set two. The quality on that is unreal. The recently smokes.

Spoiler:

Minarets (Slow & Low/Tomorrow Never Knows)
Typical Situation
The Song That Jane Likes
Jimi Thing
Granny
Dancing Nancies
Recently (Pretty Girl, Take Me To the River, Norwegian Wood, Tennessee)
-Encore-
(Two Step)
Warehouse
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:08 PM   #38
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actually, no, live and dreaming was my favorite. My buddy was in boston and called me saying this store he was at had a show with dmb and trey and I flipped out. All the fades on that fucker. It took me about 5 years to find Linda who gave me the full version to spread.

Spoiler:
Dave Matthews Band
January 26, 1995
Memorial Auditorium
Burlington, VT

Taper: Unknown
Source: AUD->DAT

DAT>CD: Linda Webster
EQUIP: Technics SV 260A->COAX->WAV->CDWAV->SHN->WAV->CD
No DAE

Disc 1:

01: Seek Up - 13:44:68
02: #36 - 08:57:09
03: Dancing Nancies - 08:42:52
04: The Best of What's Around - 06:44:74
05: Rhyme and Reason - 06:34:59
06: Jimi Thing* - 15:05:37
07: Recently*->Wine Water Jam->* - 06:39:45
08: Ants Marching* - 06:50:31

TOTAL: 73:20:00


Disc 2:

01: Nature^->Tripping Billies - 06:30:58

TOTAL: 06:30:58

-Show Notes-
* W/ Trey Anastasio of Phish on Guitar
^ W/ Lyrics
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:56 PM   #39
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actually, no, live and dreaming was my favorite. My buddy was in boston and called me saying this store he was at had a show with dmb and trey and I flipped out. All the fades on that fucker. It took me about 5 years to find Linda who gave me the full version to spread.
Wow, this was one of the first bootlegs I bought (along with 2.4.94), and in all these years I never realized Trey was on it! Thanks for pointing that out, I'll have to listen to it when I get home tonight. Mine still has the price tag on it - I think I paid $38.

My favorite is still 2.4.94 though.
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Old 01-16-2008, 08:43 PM   #40
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Yeah, 12/31/95 sounded like it was recorded under water. It was the radio-rip. Very flat and wavy. 9/28/94 which was listed as The Vogue in Indianapolis on the back, and they even had a couple of the song titles wrong. That was one of the first I saw in stores. Not saying it was the first ever, just saying it was the first I myself saw for bootlegs. Then 1/26/95(Live & Dreaming), and the compiliation bootleg "Swept Away" was widely spread. The most commonly sold/bought, from what I've seen over the years, was 1/26/95, Swept Away, and 2/24/95(With A Little Help From My Friends) - god the people that made these boots were morons.
With a Little Help From My Friends was the first boot I bought. I think I paid $15-$20 for it.
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