These Days Continue  
Go Back   These Days Continue > The Continuation > DMBc
Register Donate FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-27-2018, 12:03 AM   #21
typsitch
setlist communist by necessity
 
typsitch's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancetheham View Post
As I've been thinking about this more over the past few days, I've come to the conclusion that we can objectively say that setlists have become more varied as the years have gone on and that it's a myth that they used to vary their setlists more than they do now.

I think the reason it seems otherwise is the fact that their catalog has grown... and also that most of us don't like the newer songs nearly as much as the older ones. And those are totally legitimate points. But regardless, they play songs about every 3 shows nowadays, which is half as often as they did in the early days.
Agree with your points and thanks for the post.

But I think there's an objective song quality difference between eras of this band. And yes, there's more set variety as the catalog has grown, but at the same time 1) catalog is so large it leaves too many great songs missing or infrequently played, and 2) The core tour staples, or "Dave favorites" are consistently overplayed within and even between tours (which becomes less excusable the more the catalog grows and the longer old rare gems have been left on the shelf).

To the first point, I think the onus is on DMB to work harder to keep up with song selections as the catalog grows. I think the best stat you put together was the "Percentage of Catalog Played", and DMB should be trying to stay around 70% if possible. I know it's a lot of work though to keep all those songs playable at once.

To the second point, at a minimum, Dave needs to do a better job mixing up the staples and getting out of his comfort zone. He needs to do a better job saying, "you know what, in 2018 we'll play BOWA to death instead of satellite". Shut down DDTW for a tour and play R&R 25 times instead. Give Grey St. a break and play Stone more than 3 times a tour. Let Crush chill out for a hot fucking second and swap it with Say Goodbye. (you'll notice in all those alternatives I provided that they're pretty much crowd favorites too. Not asking for rare gems that crowd will have no idea about). It just seems that so many tours tend to bleed into each other year by year as that "comfort zone" morphs at a snails pace.
typsitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 12:14 AM   #22
Tomacco
 
Tomacco's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 21,745
I agree with that overall. A lot of previously overplayed songs tend to take breaks or disappear for awhile (WTWE, Grace is Gone, WAYG, Too Much, Bayou, HFTGL, Cornbread etc). But there are a few songs that are relentlessly overplayed and have been for so long, I want to skip them now at shows - Satellite and Grey Street being the two biggest offenders for me.
Tomacco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 12:21 AM   #23
typsitch
setlist communist by necessity
 
typsitch's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,295
Here's an idea for mixing up tour sets:

- Take the # of songs played over the past 3 tours:
--- For the top 25% of songs played, can only be played at most 50% of current tour
--- For the bottom 25% of songs played (not including covers), must be played at least 50% of current tour
--- For songs not played at all over past 3 tours (not including covers), must be played at least once in current tour

I'm sure someone could spend a lot of time coming up with a really effective formula for keeping sets fresh year after year. Dave should really have someone helping him with this.
typsitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 01:08 AM   #24
BigVodka
 
BigVodka's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: darkside of the loon
Posts: 2,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by typsitch View Post
I'm sure someone could spend a lot of time coming up with a really effective formula for keeping sets fresh year after year. Dave should really have someone helping him with this.
Keeping the sets fresh for who?

But yeah, a formula sounds like a pretty inspiring concept for a creative outlet such as live music.
__________________
.
BigVodka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 01:25 AM   #25
greykitkat36
 
greykitkat36's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 9,493
Quote:
Originally Posted by typsitch View Post
Here's an idea for mixing up tour sets:

- Take the # of songs played over the past 3 tours:
--- For the top 25% of songs played, can only be played at most 50% of current tour
--- For the bottom 25% of songs played (not including covers), must be played at least 50% of current tour
--- For songs not played at all over past 3 tours (not including covers), must be played at least once in current tour

I'm sure someone could spend a lot of time coming up with a really effective formula for keeping sets fresh year after year. Dave should really have someone helping him with this.
Hope you didn't think about that one too much, because it'll never happen in a million years But I agree 100% with everything you've said in this thread. The reasons sets are stale as hell is because a lot of the radio hits (Grey St, Satellite, DDTW, Ants, WWYS, Crush, Crash) are played into the ground like hell. Combine that with the same of Dave's favorites being overplayed (Samurai Cop, Death On High Seas, Sister, YMDT, Seven, etc.) Every show is a brutal amount of overplayed songs.

I understand you want to appeal to part of the radio crowd as well, but they really have no excuse for not mixing that up. yes they played 116 songs one tour, but 40 of those they played 25-30+ times and like 75 of them they played 1-2 times. So that stat does nothing for me because it's so incredibly skewed. Really other than their MAJOR radio songs (crash, crush, ants, WWYS, Satellite and maybe Two Step and #41 which have become major favorites) no single song should be getting played more than 15 times a tour imo. Way too much. The songs I mentioned are the only ones that should if at all.


That's why I enjoyed The caravans and am against this super long touring schedule of 40+ dates. Too much of the same, stale uninspired sets. Playing 3 night stands forces the band to not repeat songs and to dig deeper into the catalog making everything much more fresh and interesting. I'd much rather them do 25 shows--7-8 different 3 night stands and that's the tour, not all these random one-nighters in between two nighters.
__________________
S'cuse me. (spits out Ricola) Its just so I know where it is, so I can get it after. Can't waste it, Ricola's delicious."-- DJM
greykitkat36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 01:33 AM   #26
greykitkat36
 
greykitkat36's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 9,493
3 Nights--Greek Theatre
3 Nights--Gorge
3 Nights--SPAC
3 Nights-- Alpine
3 Nights-- Deer Creek
3 Nights-- Camden/Mann Center (or some better NY venue that's not Randalls)
3 Nights-- Atlanta
3 Nights -- Austin TX
3 Nights--West Palm beach, FL

I mean, what's wrong with that? That would be awesome and way better imo than the way it currently is. They've pretty much made it so that hitting a one nighter isn't worth it for people like us. If we don't do a full 2 nighter, we're going to leave pissed because of a shitty uninspired overplayed set which is pretty much exactly what they do at every venue except the ones mentioned above. Not to mention it's almost half the amount of dates which would be easier on all the members and you could space these three nights stand all a week or two apart.
__________________
S'cuse me. (spits out Ricola) Its just so I know where it is, so I can get it after. Can't waste it, Ricola's delicious."-- DJM
greykitkat36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 01:50 AM   #27
typsitch
setlist communist by necessity
 
typsitch's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigVodka View Post
Keeping the sets fresh for who?

But yeah, a formula sounds like a pretty inspiring concept for a creative outlet such as live music.
well when Dave's creativity has been sapped for as many years as it has, you're left with math and statistics to solve the problem.
typsitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 12:10 PM   #28
Thrawn
You can't take the sky from me
 
Thrawn's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 3,871
I'm curious how many songs comprise half of the setlists for each tour.

Like, in summer 2015, 116 songs were played at least once, but half of the total song performances consisted of only (35?) songs.

Is there an easy way to get that number?
Thrawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 12:46 PM   #29
mario
 

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 16,102
If you go to a specific tour, then list the songs by count, you can get something close to that. Here is what I mean for 2015: [Only registered users can see links.] There's also the song chart: [Only registered users can see links.]

It would be valuable is to see [song plays / venues]. So we can eliminate the presumed non-duplication on a 2 or 3 night stand.

Still working with 2015, there were 46 shows, but only 37 venues.

Which means 18 songs were played at half the venues on the tour (songs performed 18 times or more). It means B&BB was pretty much guaranteed (33 song performances for 37 venues).
__________________

mario is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 06:54 PM   #30
dancetheham
 
dancetheham's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 2,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrawn View Post
I'm curious how many songs comprise half of the setlists for each tour.

Like, in summer 2015, 116 songs were played at least once, but half of the total song performances consisted of only (35?) songs.

Is there an easy way to get that number?
I could figure out how many songs on each tour were played at x% of shows (or, perhaps more usefully, how many were played at 1-10% of shows, 11-20%, etc.).

I've got a few other ideas as well along these lines. I'll work on this over the next day or two and post again.
dancetheham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 06:56 PM   #31
dancetheham
 
dancetheham's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 2,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by mario View Post
If you go to a specific tour, then list the songs by count, you can get something close to that. Here is what I mean for 2015: [Only registered users can see links.] There's also the song chart: [Only registered users can see links.]

It would be valuable is to see [song plays / venues]. So we can eliminate the presumed non-duplication on a 2 or 3 night stand.

Still working with 2015, there were 46 shows, but only 37 venues.

Which means 18 songs were played at half the venues on the tour (songs performed 18 times or more). It means B&BB was pretty much guaranteed (33 song performances for 37 venues).
I agree, and I'll see what I can come up with here. The problem will be that they haven't always avoided repeating songs at multi-night shows, so I'll need to account for that somehow.
dancetheham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 07:16 PM   #32
mario
 

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 16,102
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancetheham View Post
I agree, and I'll see what I can come up with here. The problem will be that they haven't always avoided repeating songs at multi-night shows, so I'll need to account for that somehow.
I wouldn't worry about it. I think that will speak for itself in the data.

Is not like they are gonna play a rare song two nights at the same place, so it's already going to be, like, Crash in 1999 or something, and not mislead us.
__________________

mario is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 08:12 PM   #33
dancetheham
 
dancetheham's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 2,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by mario View Post
I wouldn't worry about it. I think that will speak for itself in the data.

Is not like they are gonna play a rare song two nights at the same place, so it's already going to be, like, Crash in 1999 or something, and not mislead us.
This line of analysis, though, is why 2011 is so much rarer than any other year, so it's definitely valid.

It's also probably why 2016 is lower than you might expect based on the previous years, since I think the number of 2-night shows dropped significantly there.
dancetheham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 11:37 PM   #34
mario
 

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 16,102
2011 is like a lockout / strike season. Don't try to make a formula that it fits into, just acknowledge its a small sample size outlier and ignore it.
__________________

mario is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 01:39 AM   #35
greykitkat36
 
greykitkat36's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 9,493
Quote:
Originally Posted by mario View Post
2011 is like a lockout / strike season. Don't try to make a formula that it fits into, just acknowledge its a small sample size outlier and ignore it.
Yeah you have to throw 2011 out because itís just completely different from what they usually do and led to much rarer sets because of the 3 night stands.
__________________
S'cuse me. (spits out Ricola) Its just so I know where it is, so I can get it after. Can't waste it, Ricola's delicious."-- DJM
greykitkat36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 09:50 AM   #36
MaLaKaS
Moore Soul
 
MaLaKaS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lost Somewhere In Jersey
Posts: 18,668
This thread is wonderful
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambourine Man View Post
let the children write the sets
MaLaKaS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 11:23 AM   #37
batleon
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: MA by way of RI
Posts: 14,961
Stefan looks at the almanac right? Like, he cares about liberations to a certain extent. Do we think he's looking at it right now saying, "hmmm, perthentage of catalog played, eh?"
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
LET THE ALMANAC PICK SONGS / LIVE TRAX.
batleon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 12:07 PM   #38
patsfan39
 
patsfan39's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 4,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by greykitkat36 View Post
3 Nights--Greek Theatre
3 Nights--Gorge
3 Nights--SPAC
3 Nights-- Alpine
3 Nights-- Deer Creek
3 Nights-- Camden/Mann Center (or some better NY venue that's not Randalls)
3 Nights-- Atlanta
3 Nights -- Austin TX
3 Nights--West Palm beach, FL

I mean, what's wrong with that? That would be awesome and way better imo than the way it currently is. They've pretty much made it so that hitting a one nighter isn't worth it for people like us. If we don't do a full 2 nighter, we're going to leave pissed because of a shitty uninspired overplayed set which is pretty much exactly what they do at every venue except the ones mentioned above. Not to mention it's almost half the amount of dates which would be easier on all the members and you could space these three nights stand all a week or two apart.
THIS FUCKING THING AGAIN. You love to make up new tours for them. Every. Single. Year.
__________________
-Jon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mersh View Post
bkdkbbkkddd

the letters he draws with his tongue.
patsfan39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 03:19 PM   #39
dancetheham
 
dancetheham's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 2,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by batleon View Post
Stefan looks at the almanac right? Like, he cares about liberations to a certain extent. Do we think he's looking at it right now saying, "hmmm, perthentage of catalog played, eh?"
I'm not sure we know whether Stefan himself looks at the site, but I have definitely seen Lawlor and RAab (however he spells it) on it during shows.
dancetheham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 09:10 PM   #40
greykitkat36
 
greykitkat36's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 9,493
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsfan39 View Post
THIS FUCKING THING AGAIN. You love to make up new tours for them. Every. Single. Year.
Do you agree that it would be a better format and promote overall better shows though?
__________________
S'cuse me. (spits out Ricola) Its just so I know where it is, so I can get it after. Can't waste it, Ricola's delicious."-- DJM
greykitkat36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

These Days Continue > The Continuation > DMBc


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:08 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2006 thesedayscontinue.org

Page generated in 0.08296 seconds with 16 queries