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Old 12-23-2015, 10:41 AM   #121
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I rewatched the originals for the first time in ages and feel that the new one was really not that far behind any of them, and arguably better than Jedi. The only thing that would hold it back is that's it's almost has the feel of a reboot/sequel instead of being completely it's own thing, but that honestly didn't bother me one bit. A New Hope came out almost 40 years ago, I don't care that they borrowed some ideas/concepts from it. I (along with many fans I'm sure) have been clamoring for a new SW movie that was actually like the original trilogy and got exactly what I wanted. Maybe a bit more on the nose than some anticipated, but I'm more than satisfied with it as it was the first movie in the franchise that's actually good in 30 years.
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:56 AM   #122
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Just finished watching III. My brother is working through them. Sucks seeing the Jedi torn down like that.... Especially the younglings.

You would think they would see that coming.
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Old 12-23-2015, 12:08 PM   #123
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I need to go back at re-watch 4-6 now. I do love Jedi, but the ewoks were awful. There is nothing redeemable about episodes 1 and 2. I enjoyed the second half of 3 at the time, but I can't imagine it's going to age well.

I really like how JJ seemed to only use CGI when it was needed. That will do wonders for the film long term.

But - don't read this if you haven't seen the new movie

Spoiler:

I think the TFA does way more than borrow a few ideas from A New Hope. It's almost exactly the same movie. Droid has important data. Gifted person on a a desert planet finds the droids. A rebel group is trying to defeat a planet destroying weapon just in time. There's a huge flaw in the weapon that can be exploited to cause the entire fucking thing to blow up (again). Han's death was similar to Obi's. I liked the movie and I think it did a great job setting up the next two movies, but I can't put it ahead of any of the original 3 because there's little original about the script. The acting was overall very good. The new characters are likable. Rey was fantastic.

Also, Rey is Luke's daughter, right? My buddy is convinced it's Han/Leia's sister/twin of Kylo Ren. And they used a jedi mind wipe which is why no one recognized her. I sure hope not, I think it'd be better as Luke's kid.
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Old 12-23-2015, 01:50 PM   #124
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Re: Rey's history

Spoiler:
They're certainly setting it up to make you think Rey is Luke's kid, given --

- Orphan on a desert planet.

- Has a homemade doll in a rebel x-wing flight suit in her home.

- Has a rebel x-wing pilot's helmet she wears (with little "V" [5] symbols on the side.

- Is a natural pilot (like Luke and Anakin) and skilled at fixing things / machines (like Luke and Anakin)

- Is offered a job working for Han Solo (Luke being the only other person that's happened to on screen).

- Sees visions of Luke Skywalker's life intercut with her own life / future when she touches his lightsaber.

- The phrasing of Maz's speech to her about the lightsaber "Belongs to Luke, belonged to his father before him, now calls to you..." only really makes sense if there's a direct blood lineage of father / son / daughter.

- Dreams about "oceans" and an "island" according to Kylo Ren's reading of her mind, which is exactly where they found Luke Skywalker.

- Music that plays when she "accepts" her destiny and takes the lightsaber is the same music that plays when Luke accepts his own destiny following the death of his aunt and uncle.

I still think there's a good chance this is all a swerve, but I really like the idea of Luke's kid going up against Leia's kid -- and the inherent conflict that will bring the two of them into.


And regarding Rey's future going forward:

Spoiler:
It looks like Rey will end up using Anakin's lightsaber, but if you think about how she fights in the movie and her weapon of choice prior to discovering her own powers:


Wouldn't something like this be a little more appropriate / awesome:

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Old 12-23-2015, 01:58 PM   #125
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When is the last time you watched those movies?

I used to think Revenge of the Sith was a pretty good movie. Then I watched it again shortly after seeing The Force Awakens. Episode III is god awful. Horrible acting, almost entirely CGI (which hasn't aged well), excessively long, muddled script, and just an all around atrocious film. Sadly, it's the best of the 3 prequels. Attack of the Clones is by far the worst; I've fallen asleep every time I've tried to watch it. Phantom Menace is more of a kids movie with horrible CGI, bad jokes, and cartoonish characters that aren't believable.


TFA is light years ahead of any of those three movies. Thank god George Lucas is no longer directing these films, and better yet, not even involved.

My personal rankings:

Spoiler:
Return of the Jedi (fuck the haters)
The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
The Force Awakens










Revenge of the Sith









The Phantom Menace





















Attack of the Clones
I re-watched the prequels and the originals leading up to this movie.

Phantom Menace earns it's shit reputation. It's a nearly unwatchable movie with terrible acting, banal dialogue, and some really racist aliens.

Attack of the Clones I remembered as being as-bad as Phantom, and it's not the case. It's still not a good movie, but it's way more watchable. The green screening has aged badly, the love dialogue is horrendous, and Hayden Christenson literally cannot act -- but Ewan McGregor is fantastic (playing this as almost a B-movie), and there are some decent action set pieces.

Clones and Menace are both trying to hard to be cute/clever/funny as well. The one great thing JJ did with E7 was to create humor naturally, without going for cheap laughs or entire gag scenes (like the awful "C-3P0" head-swap scene in Clones).

Revenge of the Sith is OK. There are a few scenes that are actually well directed and well shot, and the movie is relentlessly dark for the last 60 minutes. It suffers from the fact that they spent so much time farting around in the first 2 movies doing useless stuff that all the setup of Anakin being "groomed" by Palpatine feels rushed (ruining the payoff) and it glosses over a ton of stuff with a line or two that should've been fleshed out more.

The prequels could've been OK, if they'd have started with "Clones" and spent two movies doing what Revenge of the Sith tried to do in 1 (fight the clone wars, defeat Count Dooku, have Anakin be seduced by Palpatine and slowly turned to the dark side, destroy the Jedi council, murder the remaining Jedi, have Anakin and Obi-Wan fight).
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:07 PM   #126
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But it would be impossible to have made a movie that people would have said was better than 4 or 5. Those movies are family at this point.
And, in a way, it's amazing JJ has garnered the kind of reaction he has for this movie, given that...

Spoiler:
...he basically shits all over the "happy ending" from Return of the Jedi.

If you're watching these movies in order, you go right from a scene of all the mains hugging it out and celebrating to a universe 30 years later where the Empire still exists and your favorite characters (Luke, Han, Leia, Chewbacca) have all spent the majority of that time alone and miserable.

Han and Leia failed as a couple and failed as parents (Han Solo, specifically, lost: his wife, his kid, and his prized starship). Luke Skywalker failed as a Jedi Master, got all his trainees killed, lost the son of his best friend and sister to the dark side, and has been alone in exile for years.
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:44 PM   #127
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And, in a way, it's amazing JJ has garnered the kind of reaction he has for this movie, given that... * SPOILER *
I like the discussion in here today. Making me really think about VII.

I tried to see it again last night and it was sold out.... On a Tuesday. Currently watching IV. Odd that C3PO and R2D2 don't realize they are on Tatooine
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:53 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
And, in a way, it's amazing JJ has garnered the kind of reaction he has for this movie, given that...

Spoiler:
...he basically shits all over the "happy ending" from Return of the Jedi.

If you're watching these movies in order, you go right from a scene of all the mains hugging it out and celebrating to a universe 30 years later where the Empire still exists and your favorite characters (Luke, Han, Leia, Chewbacca) have all spent the majority of that time alone and miserable.

Han and Leia failed as a couple and failed as parents (Han Solo, specifically, lost: his wife, his kid, and his prized starship). Luke Skywalker failed as a Jedi Master, got all his trainees killed, lost the son of his best friend and sister to the dark side, and has been alone in exile for years.
Which is why it can't be a total copy of IV. Lots of similar action plot points, but at a different time in their universe. Almost like history repeats itself....
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Old 12-23-2015, 03:08 PM   #129
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Which is why it can't be a total copy of IV. Lots of similar action plot points, but at a different time in their universe. Almost like history repeats itself....
On that note...

Spoiler:
This is why I do not think Han's death and Obi Won's death are really that similar. Yes, they are both dramatic deaths in the first movie, but Obi Won basically sacrifices himself in front of Luke for a greater cause.

Han dies because he was trying to save his family, and thinks he has won over Ren who is just playing him and then runs his lightsaber through him.

Just because a major character dies from a red lightsaber doesnt make it a copy of the original.

I agree too with the history repeats itself because it sounds like the New Republic is making the same mistakes as the New Republic and the Empire, at least from what I have read.

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Old 12-23-2015, 05:31 PM   #130
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I like the discussion in here today. Making me really think about VII.

I tried to see it again last night and it was sold out.... On a Tuesday. Currently watching IV. Odd that C3PO and R2D2 don't realize they are on Tatooine
They had their memory erased at the end of Episode III.
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Old 12-23-2015, 05:34 PM   #131
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It's more odd that OB1 doesn't recognize them. That was one of the most egregious contradictions of the prequels
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Old 12-23-2015, 05:45 PM   #132
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It's more odd that OB1 doesn't recognize them. That was one of the most egregious contradictions of the prequels
If you go just by what's on film, Kenobi basically starts lying to Luke from the first moment that he meets him (as established in the original trilogy, where he admits as much), so him "playing dumb" with knowing R2D2 is in character. His line is also "I don't seem to remember owning a droid..." and that's technically correct -- he never owned any droids in the prequels.

The egregious contradiction is more how Kenobi goes from being a pretty straight-up dude in the prequels to a compulsive liar and manipulator by ANH.
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Old 12-23-2015, 06:02 PM   #133
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He has no reason to lie about R2. That's just a BS explanation. I can understand lying about Vader.
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Old 12-23-2015, 06:23 PM   #134
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It was good. Definitely better than any of the prequels
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Old 12-24-2015, 12:56 PM   #135
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Really liked it a lot, it felt like the old Star Wars again which was great. Excited to see where they take it from here.
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Old 12-24-2015, 01:27 PM   #136
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He has no reason to lie about R2. That's just a BS explanation. I can understand lying about Vader.
He never lies about him. He just doesn't volunteer any information (that he recognizes him, that he belonged to his father & mother, etc). And that's perfectly in keeping with everything else, since he also withholds a ton of information from Luke about his father in that initial conversation.

And he has every reason to do this, it turns out, since his "mission" is to eventually train Luke Skywalker, the son of the most powerful Jedi ever, to kill his own father. It's very clear that both he and Yoda believe that knowledge of this will compromise Luke's ability to do what must be done, and they're right -- since Luke changes from "kill Vader" to "redeem Vader" as soon as he finds out the truth. That shift in position almost gets him killed.
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Old 12-24-2015, 03:44 PM   #137
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Should we lift the spoiler embargo now? It's been a week. Not sure why someone who hasn't seen it yet would be checking out the thread now anyway. What else would we be talking about
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Old 12-24-2015, 03:44 PM   #138
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Yeah I just don't agree with you and I think you are stretching to make it mKe sense. Lucas just wanted R2 and 3PO in the movies.
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Old 12-24-2015, 03:46 PM   #139
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Should we lift the spoiler embargo now? It's been a week. Not sure why someone who hasn't seen it yet would be checking out the thread now anyway. What else would we be talking about


I think it's time
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Old 12-24-2015, 03:59 PM   #140
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Should we lift the spoiler embargo now? It's been a week. Not sure why someone who hasn't seen it yet would be checking out the thread now anyway. What else would we be talking about
Since the spoiler embargo is being lifted, can the title reflect that? I'm kind of forgetful and don't want to stumble in here and be spoiled. I've been coming in here to see what people think of the movie. I won't see the movie until the week go Jan 10th, hopefully.
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