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#41 |
Sugar Will '04
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,914
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Here we go........
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#42 |
The Flyin' Lions
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 6,965
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Subsidies contribute to keep prices artificially high -- the goal of the EV market should be to compete on price and performance with traditional ICE cars. So long as the government is offering a handout to everyone who buys an EV, there is no incentive for EVs to cut costs and be competitive in the open market.
I'm all for the transition to EVs, but the taxpayers are getting a raw deal on it currently. We're paying to subsidize people buying the cars, and we're paying to subsidize their use of the roads (since EV drivers don't pay gas taxes that forms the bulk of the national highway fund). At some point, that has to change. |
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#43 | |
Sugar Will '04
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,914
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But you want to talk about subsidies, here ya go. [Only registered users can see links.] |
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#44 |
Sugar Will '04
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,914
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A great, short animated video that explains the situation we are heading into because of the S curve.
[Only registered users can see links.] |
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#45 | |
ISO Hello Again&Broken Things
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 10,391
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Quote:
![]() In 50 years we'll obviously look back and wonder why we weren't saving our oil for its other uses rather than burning it to get to the store (among many other reasons). I'm sure there is an explanation that I don't understand, but why in the hell aren't oil companies beginning the transition into supplying gear for new energy methods/storage NOW? Seems like an easy and obvious way for a company with plenty of money to get ahead of the curve and make some real money in the long term. Not to mention the safety/health benefits and looking good for pioneering something so beneficial. |
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#46 | |
The Flyin' Lions
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 6,965
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The answer may be EVs as we currently know them -- but the battery tech and/or charging tech is going to need to improve significantly before that happens. The problem is that if you start investing in EVs heavily right now (researching better batteries, faster charging / investing in charging infrastructure), it's entirely possible that the tech gets lapped by something else and you're left holding the bag with billions of dollars in obsolete stuff. |
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#47 | |
Sugar Will '04
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,914
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Quote:
It can be done! How is it that Tesla has over 200 miles of range on a charge and no one else does? *They didn't wait for a chemistry improvement in the cells* They took the normal sized Li-Ion batteries that were on the market and designed an extremely sophisticated cell chemistry and BMS. They had people who knew that it could work with just that - and it does. They have the best cell degradation in the industry - and it's barley anything. I highly recommend watching this video from 2013 that explains what is going on in the cell chemistry when EVs are charged and discharged. It also explains the different types of chemical combinations you could have and why Tesla's is the best. Last edited by ggies; 02-26-2016 at 11:38 AM. |
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#48 |
The Flyin' Lions
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 6,965
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I'm not going to rehash this -- but suffice it to say, the market has spoken and the current range and charge times of EVs is insufficient to meet consumer demand.
You can buy an ICE car for $20K that has a range of 400 miles and refuels in 4 minutes at virtually every exit on the modern highway system. Even if you could bring the price of an EV down to that range, you're still talking about a car with a range of ~250 miles and a 30 minute recharge time (that doesn't even get you back to full capacity, only 70%, and isn't available in all locations). The tech isn't close to being mature, and every day it isn't mature is another day where a breakthrough in something else (like Hydrogen fuel cells -- the vaporware of transportation energy) could render battery-operated EVs obsolete. |
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#49 | |
Sugar Will '04
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,914
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Quote:
Do you know what's in a hydrogen fool cell car? A small battery! So why not just have a bigger one that can charge from solar? Hydro will never take off. oh, and the market will speak on March 31st/April 1st when Tesla debuts it's cheaper 200 + mile EV. It's happening man, embrace it. ![]() |
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#50 | |
The Flyin' Lions
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 6,965
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Quote:
Case in point -- I'm going on vacation to the beach in South Carolina with my in-laws in June. It's a 700 mile trip. In an ICE car, that's no big deal. With an EV, that would require careful planning to make sure you always hit a supercharger station whenever your 200 mile range ran out. And, even if you could plan it so that you hit a supercharger station every time you needed one, you're still talking about adding ~2 hours of charging time to your trip. I don't think I'm alone in using my car to take long trips. Millions of people every year rely on a car to get to vacations, trips to see relatives, events (this board is loaded with people who have driven 200+ miles to see a multiple DMB shows per year). You think any family is going to buy an EV that will require them to unload their kids from the car every 176 miles on a trip and keep them entertained for a half hour while their car is recharging? For most people, their car has to be more than a commuter appliance -- and that's by necessity, because most people cannot afford to have multiple cars to fill multiple roles. It has to be useful for 100% of their needs. If an EV is only useful for 90-95% of their needs, they aren't going to say "Well, I guess we can always just spend the extra $2,000 per year and fly to see grandma and grandpa for the holidays," they're just going to buy the car that lets them drive to see grandma and grandpa without a hassle. |
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#51 | |
Sugar Will '04
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,914
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Quote:
Question though - Don't you stop to take a pee break or eat? 176 miles is 2.9 hours of driving, usually most people stop way before that, so it's reasonable to think people won't mind charging while they're eating or stretching (it takes 30 minutes for 80% charge on a Tesla) on long trips like those you proposed. |
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#52 | |
The Flyin' Lions
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 6,965
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Quote:
And yeah, I'm sure Tesla Model S owners are pleased. When you've got $70K+ to drop on a car, you're probably not taking a lot of long trips on the road. |
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#53 | |
Sugar Will '04
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,914
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#54 | |
Sugar Will '04
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,914
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A writer on oilprice.com that focus on the oil market has picked up the Bloomberg projections that I posted in here a few days back. The most telling part coming from someone on that side:
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#55 |
Sugar Will '04
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,914
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A great TED talk by Al Gore on Climate Change:
[Only registered users can see links.] This is a great visual on why we need to keep the rest of the fossil fuel in the ground and why the Divestment campaign is working: ![]() |
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#56 | |||
Sugar Will '04
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,914
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Arch Coal’s, another company that has helped spread false info about climate change, has filed for bankruptcy. Now even the lobbyists are starting to not get paid because the industry is failing.
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#57 |
Sugar Will '04
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,914
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This is the first article from the Koch brothers campaign attacking EVs( the author of this article is on the board of Koch Industries). If you see it, know it's B.S. The future is less fossil fuels, more EVs, solar/wind, and storage.
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#58 | ||
Sugar Will '04
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,914
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I don't post every article I read on this subject here, just the important ones others should know about. When I was first getting into all of this years ago, I thought natural gas was the best "bridge fuel" to electrification. Over the years of research though, I have abandoned that notion. If you don't know methane is worse than carbon dioxide, you must read this:
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#59 |
Sugar Will '04
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,914
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Today is the day everyone - the day the auto industry is changed forever. Tesla is revealing the Model 3 tonight. Live broadcast on their website for anyone wanting to check it out.
![]() Last edited by ggies; 03-31-2016 at 10:01 AM. |
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#60 |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Long Island
Posts: 14,341
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I drove my friend's Tesla over the weekend. Very cool. I was surprised at how fast it was.
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