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Old 12-20-2017, 07:24 PM   #81
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Not going to go back and quibble with anyone’s points against this movie, but I just got back from it, and I absolutely loved it. Unequivocally. It’s the only Star Wars movie within the main story cycle that makes the characters feel like people, and not Joseph Campbell archetypes (not a complaint about the other movies, but a very welcome change this far into the series). On a completely separate level, it managed to be completely different from what I expected and cleared any expectations for IX.
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:45 PM   #82
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Not going to go back and quibble with anyone’s points against this movie, but I just got back from it, and I absolutely loved it. Unequivocally. It’s the only Star Wars movie within the main story cycle that makes the characters feel like people, and not Joseph Campbell archetypes (not a complaint about the other movies, but a very welcome change this far into the series). On a completely separate level, it managed to be completely different from what I expected and cleared any expectations for IX.
I also thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought the last one was just a parody of previous movies. After seeing it, I read the complaints and agree with most of them. But goddamnit, still loved it

Also I think Disney set us up for an unexpected storyline. I think the black/white Jedi/Sith world is gone. There will be good guys and bad guys but they’ll be less absolute. Should be good. Is episode 9 supposed to be it or does Disney intend to keep going?

It also seems like the movie took place in just a couple places. A change of scenery would’ve been nice.
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Old 12-20-2017, 09:56 PM   #83
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I also thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought the last one was just a parody of previous movies. After seeing it, I read the complaints and agree with most of them. But goddamnit, still loved it

Also I think Disney set us up for an unexpected storyline. I think the black/white Jedi/Sith world is gone. There will be good guys and bad guys but they’ll be less absolute. Should be good. Is episode 9 supposed to be it or does Disney intend to keep going?

It also seems like the movie took place in just a couple places. A change of scenery would’ve been nice.
I loved that they kept this one so insular and largely character-driven. It was so different.

I keep reading that this is the second in a trilogy, but I can’t seem to find where Lucasfilm or Disney have actually said that.
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Old 12-21-2017, 01:02 AM   #84
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Not going to go back and quibble with anyone’s points against this movie, but I just got back from it, and I absolutely loved it. Unequivocally. It’s the only Star Wars movie within the main story cycle that makes the characters feel like people, and not Joseph Campbell archetypes (not a complaint about the other movies, but a very welcome change this far into the series). On a completely separate level, it managed to be completely different from what I expected and cleared any expectations for IX.
To each their own. Judging it soley as a movie, it's good and entertaining. I just think they did a terrible job of "fitting" it into the overall arching story that's been going on for decades. I thought they could have made it different but still kept the basic rules and mythology about Star Wars in tact. Oh well.

The reason I didn't like it as much was that it just didn't "Feel" like a Star Wars movie to me at all. It felt more like a Marvel movie or something, not sure. It was missing a lot of things that make it feel like Star Wars if that makes sense. The droids have always played big roles in all the movies and they were barely in this one except for a few minor cameos. Most of the movie took place in space on the ships too, which felt weird. And I felt that the whole Finn plot didn't really need to be there. Everytime they cut back to his storyline I really just didn't care at all, wanted to just see the Rey/Kylo stuff. I groaned everytime they went back to it.
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Old 12-21-2017, 01:06 AM   #85
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I also thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought the last one was just a parody of previous movies. After seeing it, I read the complaints and agree with most of them. But goddamnit, still loved it

Also I think Disney set us up for an unexpected storyline. I think the black/white Jedi/Sith world is gone. There will be good guys and bad guys but they’ll be less absolute. Should be good. Is episode 9 supposed to be it or does Disney intend to keep going?

It also seems like the movie took place in just a couple places. A change of scenery would’ve been nice.
Disney has already confirmed that Rian Johnson is going to write and direct an entirely new Star Wars trilogy that takes place in a totally different galaxy with entirely different characters and storyline etc. I feel like this movie was his way of promoting and previewing everyone where he's going to be going with his new trilogy...but shouldn't have messed with the original. Break all the rules and do crazy stuff in the new trilogy, not ruin the fabric that was already established. That's my .02
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:10 AM   #86
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HOLY CRAP. I had a huge revelation involving the new trilogy and Darth Plageuis and Snoke. We know that there were theories about Snoke being Darth Plagueis and even though The Last Jedi seemed to completley crap on all fan theories, hear this out.

Rey was born completely by the force as a direct result of Darth Plagueis' influence in the use of midi-chlorians . According to the book about Darth Plagueis, Anakin had the highest level of midi-chlorians they had ever seen When Anakin died in Return Of The Jedi, Plaugeis was able to use his midi-chlorians to create Rey as a vessel to eventually become immortal.. In Revenge Of The Sith, Palpatine tells Anakin that Plagueis was so powerful that he could actually manipulate the midi-chlorians to create life. We see that Rey has no parents at all, and that she was drawn incredibly to the dark hole during her time on the island with Luke. This wasn't any coincidence. She has no parents because she was created by Plaugeis using the force, hence why she sees herself in the mirror and why she needs absolutely no training at all to be as strong as she is. Though I doubt that the last movie will go this route, because they'll probably mess it up, but think about this. This final movie could be a ridiculous twist of events.

Remember when Kylo Ren said "I know what I have to do?" before he used the force to kill Snoke? Perhaps that was Snoke's plan the entire time. He influenced Kylo Ren to kill him so that he could enter Rey through the force and become an even more powerful, immortal sith lord. We may see Snoke come back and enter Rey's mind through the force after she gains the trust of the rebellion and influences her to kill the entire rebellion and remaining jedi from the inside out. As this happens, Luke returns to Kylo Ren as a force ghost along with Leia and sway him to the light side of the force, where Kylo Ren eventually becomes the true real hero of the series and brings back the jedi to full force. Too much to happen in just one movie though, and they've already kind of set the stage with a Rey/Kylo showdown.

I mean the whole thing with Rey's parents and that whole scene with the mirror, and then the fact that she's incredibly powerful with no training, and literally can do anything she wants makes me think there's definitely got to be more to this story that they haven't fleshed out. They can't be that dumb and careless to just leave that glaring plot hole in there. Even in force awakens, when she touches the light saber she can literally see everything that happened in the past. There's no way that happens with just being born from nobodies. Even Anakin needed years of training. And why is Rey at the end of the movie suddenly able to lift all those rocks? She just suddenly thought about it and it happened? Or is it she became stronger because Snoke has now entered her through the force?

Now, that would be incredibly crazy, twisty and interesting and would make this movie make more sense but we all know they are most likely going to take the most predictable route, as this movie clearly showed. I just wanted to give myself a shred of hope that maybe all the stuff we hated about this movie will be justified and villified in the last movie.


This theory would redeem The Last Jedi in some ways, but I doubt that Disney goes in that direction. I don't trust them with episode IX. I hope that I am wrong though.
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Old 12-21-2017, 12:46 PM   #87
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Totally stupid on many levels. That's probably the one thing I'd definitely change. Otherwise a few nitpicks but I was happy with it
I agree. That one small scene (which could've been done with the same basic premise, but with less visual "wtf"s) doesn't ruin the movie on the whole, but it just looked cheap, IMO.

I enjoyed the movie quite a bit, especially on a second viewing where I could discount that one particular scene and went in knowing that Canto Bight was stretched out too long. They could've gotten everything needed from that planet's visit in within 10 minutes, really. Aside from those minor things, I enjoyed the story and where it vaults things to complete the trilogy.

Spoiler:
I do hate seeing my childhood die on-screen with these movies...but also believe that Luke will be back as a force-ghost, maybe with Yoda and even Obi-Wan, to give guidance to Rey as she rebuilds the Jedi. I thought it was a slick move to have Yoda destroy the tree before Luke could realize that Rey had taken the Jedi texts, so he could motivate his old student to take part in getting involved again without the distraction of the scrolls being gone.

The Leia in space thing could've been done with her clinging to something in the exposed bridge, but not like 200 yards away from the ship, and been less hokey. The visuals of that scene looked like she was a cardboard cutout in a low-budget Halloween witch movie moving across the screen.

I don't believe Kylo Ren's explanation of Rey's parentage. I think he DID see who they were, but that he wanted to hide the power of her bloodline from her because he wanted to be the big show, with her as second in command vs. her thinking that she could be/is more powerful than him. That will be a big reveal in Ep IX I believe.

The Luke scene at the end was badass.

The "hyperspace tracking" having an origin back to the Tarkin Group research in Rogue One was a pretty cool tie-in that I didn't catch until re-watching Rogue One. That was a pretty fun revelation.

Canto Bight was too long, and Del Toro's character was sorely underused, but maybe he carries a bigger part in the next episode? Lando was really a small role in Empire...then he becomes a freakin' General by RotJ.

The move by Laura Dern's character, doing a lightspeed kamikaze run into Snoke's fleet was fantastic. She MAY have had the most interesting character arc in retrospect. I went from hating her, believing her to be incompetent to thinking "hey...she actually had a solid plan" to respecting the move to keep piloting the ship to openly saying "wow...that was awesome" as she pulled the kamikaze run.

Snoke's demise was the other moment in the movie that made me say something out loud (not something I normally do in a movie). I let out an "oh shit!" (to which our church youth pastor sitting next to me actually said "I know, right?"). The fight that followed was outstanding and probably my favorite part of the movie.
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Old 12-21-2017, 12:54 PM   #88
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My Rey's parents theory.

Spoiler:
I believe the story about Rey's parents being no one, because that's the build to a new line of Jedi. There really are no special parents any more. An entire line of Jedi coming from either Kylo or Rey - the only two left - is not realistic, and how many decades does that take to establish. I think the fact that they showed a random kid at the end use the force on his broom is proof. Rey being a powerful Jedi from nowhere with muggle parents is the new inspiration of hope. That was the entire purpose of showing that kid. I'm taking this one at face value. However I do believe this is probably a change from Force Awakens to Last Jedi. Johnson said he was given no info about her parents. So this is something that I think is incongruous from the first movie due to having different visions of the story and not one person writing a three-movie arc with all of these questions answered before filing of the first movie started.
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Old 12-21-2017, 02:20 PM   #89
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My Rey's parents theory.

Spoiler:
I believe the story about Rey's parents being no one, because that's the build to a new line of Jedi. There really are no special parents any more. An entire line of Jedi coming from either Kylo or Rey - the only two left - is not realistic, and how many decades does that take to establish. I think the fact that they showed a random kid at the end use the force on his broom is proof. Rey being a powerful Jedi from nowhere with muggle parents is the new inspiration of hope. That was the entire purpose of showing that kid. I'm taking this one at face value. However I do believe this is probably a change from Force Awakens to Last Jedi. Johnson said he was given no info about her parents. So this is something that I think is incongruous from the first movie due to having different visions of the story and not one person writing a three-movie arc with all of these questions answered before filing of the first movie started.
My thoughts on that:

Spoiler:
I think that the two things (Rey's parentage and then random others showing force sensitivity at the end) are mutually exclusive. The Jedi, afterall, had searched the galaxy for force-sensitive kids all the way through the prequels. It didn't necessarily mean that there was a "known" parentage lineage for all of them who could do it. The Jedi were actually forbidden from relationships, right? So the "lineage" of strong Jedi would be relatively foreign when they were at the height of their power. Anakin was just "special" in that he was part of the miraculous conception through the Force...and then he broke ranks and got it on with Padme creating the lineage of Luke & Leia, with Leia from the movie line of things having kids and Luke, conceivably, abstaining as part of the Jedi mythos.

I truly think that Kylo's statement was a misdirect setting up a twist for IX. He wanted power and wanted to be the strongest. So what happens, say, if he sees that Rey's parents include his Grandfather's former teacher? Or former master? Either of those would worry him that she'd gain confidence and try to undermine him, imo.

The other thing that makes me think that the parentage is not as Kylo says...her memory in TFA was specifically of a ship lifting off after her parents seemingly dropped her on Jaaku. Kylo said that they were penniless, drunk, nobodies who were scavengers on the planet who died and were buried in a pauper's grave there...which would completely conflict with that ship carrying them away. Just a thought.
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Old 12-21-2017, 02:31 PM   #90
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Your last paragraph is my point, though. The director was given no feedback on the plan for Rey's parents. I don't think a flash of a vision would tie him to that. He went his own way and the path forward seems part of a massive strategy for the next movie providing hope for the future. The hold to continuity between the two films just isn't there. Look at the difference in the last scene of Force Awakens with Luke and Rey vs. when it picks up there in Last Jedi. They look entirely different, they're standing differently, the scene is totally different, and that's a frame to frame pickup plot. Hux is basically a different character. He's comic fodder in Last Jedi. Look at how important Snoke seemed to be in TFA. If you tie back to this flash of a vision an entire theory, while ignoring the symbolism of the very end, I think it's stubborn.
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Old 12-21-2017, 04:57 PM   #91
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Your last paragraph is my point, though. The director was given no feedback on the plan for Rey's parents. I don't think a flash of a vision would tie him to that. He went his own way and the path forward seems part of a massive strategy for the next movie providing hope for the future. The hold to continuity between the two films just isn't there. Look at the difference in the last scene of Force Awakens with Luke and Rey vs. when it picks up there in Last Jedi. They look entirely different, they're standing differently, the scene is totally different, and that's a frame to frame pickup plot. Hux is basically a different character. He's comic fodder in Last Jedi. Look at how important Snoke seemed to be in TFA. If you tie back to this flash of a vision an entire theory, while ignoring the symbolism of the very end, I think it's stubborn.
And this is the shit that bothers me. Why have a trilogy with movies have no connection to each other and have no congruency other than using the same characters? The worst idea of all time was letting different directors do each movie and have them have full control. Dumb idea. Should have just let Abrams do all three
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:14 PM   #92
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And this is the shit that bothers me. Why have a trilogy with movies have no connection to each other and have no congruency other than using the same characters? The worst idea of all time was letting different directors do each movie and have them have full control. Dumb idea. Should have just let Abrams do all three


I fully agree. I would rather have Lucas come back and do this trilogy then. At least he had a singular vision and the plot line made sense. I know it's an unpopular opinion and he did his own damage, but I enjoyed Episodes II & III more than VIII.
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Old 12-22-2017, 11:28 AM   #93
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Your last paragraph is my point, though. The director was given no feedback on the plan for Rey's parents. I don't think a flash of a vision would tie him to that. He went his own way and the path forward seems part of a massive strategy for the next movie providing hope for the future. The hold to continuity between the two films just isn't there. Look at the difference in the last scene of Force Awakens with Luke and Rey vs. when it picks up there in Last Jedi. They look entirely different, they're standing differently, the scene is totally different, and that's a frame to frame pickup plot. Hux is basically a different character. He's comic fodder in Last Jedi. Look at how important Snoke seemed to be in TFA. If you tie back to this flash of a vision an entire theory, while ignoring the symbolism of the very end, I think it's stubborn.
Hear me out, as I liked The Last Jedi quite a bit, but my one over-arching beef with it is exactly what is described here. I don't disagree with you in regard to everything you say about deviations from TFA to TLJ. Those changes, making it to where TFA may as well have never happened, don't make a lot of sense to me. Unless they're an intentional misdirect to set up a slam in the third movie that ties it all back together. Just my opinion, but I'd like to think that this piece of the puzzle ENDS UP fitting the overall narrative of the story that sums it all up in the next movie with some surprises that make you look back at this one and say "ohhhh...okay. I see how that all fits together now." When you look at the original trilogy, even Obi-Wan casually addresses a massive twist by saying what he'd said in IV WAS true...from a certain point of view.

As to your Hux point...he's now my least favorite character of this third trilogy BECAUSE of what they did with him in this movie. I found myself hoping that Kylo Ren would just force choke him to death by the end of the movie so we could move on to the next Admiral Piett ala Vader's promotion methods.
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Old 12-22-2017, 01:54 PM   #94
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I fully agree. I would rather have Lucas come back and do this trilogy then. At least he had a singular vision and the plot line made sense. I know it's an unpopular opinion and he did his own damage, but I enjoyed Episodes II & III more than VIII.
Opinions are opinions but I don't see how anyone could possibly think that. Who cares if it's a singular vision if that vision sucks? The prequels were terrible movies.
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Old 12-22-2017, 02:23 PM   #95
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And this is the shit that bothers me. Why have a trilogy with movies have no connection to each other and have no congruency other than using the same characters?
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:19 PM   #96
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Opinions are opinions but I don't see how anyone could possibly think that. Who cares if it's a singular vision if that vision sucks? The prequels were terrible movies.


Ok well that is my opinion and I am the person that possibly thought of that. Your opinion isn't better than mine. I'm not alone in my thought process either. TLJ is above TPM, but that's about it, in our opinions.
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:45 PM   #97
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I always thought Attack of the Clones was the worst. That movie has not aged well at all.
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Old 12-22-2017, 11:35 PM   #98
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Just wanted to post that Rian Johnson is to Star Wars what Ballard/Batson are to DMB.
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Old 12-23-2017, 12:57 AM   #99
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Just wanted to post that Rian Johnson is to Star Wars what Ballard/Batson are to DMB.
Lol. Ridiculous. That is so far off base. If anything it was at least the best looking film.
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Old 12-23-2017, 01:18 AM   #100
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Just wanted to post that Rian Johnson is to Star Wars what Ballard/Batson are to DMB.
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Lol. Ridiculous. That is so far off base. If anything it was at least the best looking film.


Last Jedi seemed like a Star Wars movie made by someone that's never seen a Star Wars movie.

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