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Old 08-29-2017, 12:26 PM   #61
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Honestly, I would like to see them dump Rashawn and maybe Tim too and bring back Butch. It's been said many times, but loud and fast has been terrible.

Sets list has been an issue for the majority of 3.0 but the sound of the band has taken a big hit especally in the last few years. It gets worse and worse.
Tim is right now one of the best things about the band. That would be awful if he goes. Dashawn I could take or leave..he hasn't been as intrusive the last few years so I'm fine if he's there. I blame most of loud fast on Carter because he dictates tempo and he plays so much harder than he used to.

The setlists were actually pretty good for most of 3.0, really was just '15 that got really stale and predictable. The other years saw the most songs played in a tour and a lot of varying up slots. And you had 2010 and 2013 which were similar to '03 with all the bust outs.
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Old 08-29-2017, 01:34 PM   #62
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I think three main things are impacting the bands sound.

1. Boyd can't play violin anymore. A signature sound of the band is lost forever. It isn't coming back. Just need to hope the sound crew limits his errors and he can hold his own on the few solos he has left.

2. Horn section. Rashawn needs to go. That allows Jeff to play sax however he wants - no canned horn lines. What I miss most about Roi are the little fills he would play on random live songs. That doesn't happen anymore. I think it would if Rashawn left and Jeff had sole control of the horn sound.

3. Carter/Dave getting old. Can't really fix this. This should encourage Carter to slow down a bit. Dave doesn't play his full guitar parts anymore. While I prefer Tim adding fills instead of mirroring Dave's part, he's crucial to filling in the sound that Boyd no longer can play and the horn section doesn't contribute to anymore.
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Old 08-29-2017, 01:41 PM   #63
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I think three main things are impacting the bands sound.

1. Boyd can't play violin anymore. A signature sound of the band is lost forever. It isn't coming back. Just need to hope the sound crew limits his errors and he can hold his own on the few solos he has left.

2. Horn section. Rashawn needs to go. That allows Jeff to play sax however he wants - no canned horn lines. What I miss most about Roi are the little fills he would play on random live songs. That doesn't happen anymore. I think it would if Rashawn left and Jeff had sole control of the horn sound.

3. Carter/Dave getting old. Can't really fix this. This should encourage Carter to slow down a bit. Dave doesn't play his full guitar parts anymore. While I prefer Tim adding fills instead of mirroring Dave's part, he's crucial to filling in the sound that Boyd no longer can play and the horn section doesn't contribute to anymore.
Yeah I'd have to agree with you. Dave clearly is struggling from either carpal tunnel or arthritis just by the way he holds the guitar now (extremely noticeable this summer). He would probably benefit by switching back to a guitar that is s little easier on the wrist and easier to play like the Chet, or get a smaller acoustic ala Ed Sheeran, you sacrifice sound a bit but it would be much easier on his wrist and arm.

Carters age to me doesn't really sound like it's affecting him too much. He gets gassed now during and after solos, but it certainly hasn't slowed him down at all. I just don't think he practices or plays as much as he used to. His chops have descreased and he's relying on more simple, repetitive fills--he's not playing as creative and tasteful and I think that's because he just doesn't play a lot anymore. There are tons of drummers same age or older than carter that can still play really really well.
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Old 08-29-2017, 01:46 PM   #64
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I've been posting a crapload, slow week at work

Daves vocals are going to benefit the most from this break. I think his voice needs this long recovery time. He's going to have roughly 7 months of rest, which is the most he's probably had in years. Looking forward to see if it helps
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:16 PM   #65
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Tim is right now one of the best things about the band. That would be awful if he goes. Dashawn I could take or leave..he hasn't been as intrusive the last few years so I'm fine if he's there. I blame most of loud fast on Carter because he dictates tempo and he plays so much harder than he used to.

The setlists were actually pretty good for most of 3.0, really was just '15 that got really stale and predictable. The other years saw the most songs played in a tour and a lot of varying up slots. And you had 2010 and 2013 which were similar to '03 with all the bust outs.
I think it boils down to the band hasn't changed much of anything in the last 9 years. DMB with Grieser was about 2 years, just the 5 was about 6/7 years, Butch years was what, 6/7? And now the Tim/Rashawn years (though to be fair Rashawn years started a year or so earlier than Tim) have been going on for about 9 years now. It's not the sets that have gotten stale, it's the approach.
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Old 08-29-2017, 04:20 PM   #66
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Tim is right now one of the best things about the band. That would be awful if he goes. Dashawn I could take or leave..he hasn't been as intrusive the last few years so I'm fine if he's there. I blame most of loud fast on Carter because he dictates tempo and he plays so much harder than he used to.

The setlists were actually pretty good for most of 3.0, really was just '15 that got really stale and predictable. The other years saw the most songs played in a tour and a lot of varying up slots. And you had 2010 and 2013 which were similar to '03 with all the bust outs.
I'm just tired of the electric guitar. I wish tim would go with the acoustic the whole show. Or atleast the majority of the show. IMO the electric is just too much on a lot of songs. It was cool in 2008 but now it's gotten stale.

As for the sets: 2009, 2012, 2014, 2015, and 2016 for the most part didn't have good sets. And even in 2008, 2010, and 2013 you had some very meh shows. Well I guess even in 2.0 after 2004 they had several dud shows so its not just a 3.0 thing. But whatever.
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Old 08-29-2017, 07:29 PM   #67
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I think three main things are impacting the bands sound.

1. Boyd can't play violin anymore. A signature sound of the band is lost forever. It isn't coming back. Just need to hope the sound crew limits his errors and he can hold his own on the few solos he has left.

2. Horn section. Rashawn needs to go. That allows Jeff to play sax however he wants - no canned horn lines. What I miss most about Roi are the little fills he would play on random live songs. That doesn't happen anymore. I think it would if Rashawn left and Jeff had sole control of the horn sound.

3. Carter/Dave getting old. Can't really fix this. This should encourage Carter to slow down a bit. Dave doesn't play his full guitar parts anymore. While I prefer Tim adding fills instead of mirroring Dave's part, he's crucial to filling in the sound that Boyd no longer can play and the horn section doesn't contribute to anymore.
Agree with #1.

#2, I'd prefer rashawn leaving as well, but I think Jeff is more of a big solo guy and less of a complimentary fill guy compared to roi. So I don't think we'll get back to the sound they had with roi because Jeff's style is different.

#3, butch helped out dave a lot too...I wouldn't mind trading tim for a less aggressive sound, but either way, dave needs help from someone.
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Old 08-30-2017, 12:21 AM   #68
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I think it boils down to the band hasn't changed much of anything in the last 9 years. DMB with Grieser was about 2 years, just the 5 was about 6/7 years, Butch years was what, 6/7? And now the Tim/Rashawn years (though to be fair Rashawn years started a year or so earlier than Tim) have been going on for about 9 years now. It's not the sets that have gotten stale, it's the approach.
That's a good point. The Butch era is debatable, if you go back to when he first started guesting in '98..then it was more like 9 years. But yeah I don't think he became full time until '01 correct? So technically 6, but I'd go back further, because he was with them a lot in '99 and '00 as well. I'd say 8-9 years for Butch. And you're right, most people by that time were really sick and tired of Butch, and his departure while upsetting...most people were fine with it because of Tim coming back.
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Old 08-30-2017, 12:27 AM   #69
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I just don't know what real lineup change they could do at this point. I don't think Butch is coming back or has any interest in coming back. He didn't even guest at the Cville 25th anniversary show or at all that whole tour. I don't think dropping Rashawn would overall change all that much. Less annoying high pitch squeals, but I don't necessarily believe Jeff will suddenly become alive or play differently because of it. He'd get more solos which would be cool though, but I don't think it solves the core issue.

You could replace Boyd, but that's a really hard thing to do. He's core member going all the way back to the beginning, and his personality and presence alone is part of what DMB is. I just don't think getting another violin player would even feel right. Maybe Boyd could try working in another instrument that's easier for him or something, or come up with a new way of playing.

The only thing I could see is maybe having a banjo player like Bela or Danny Barnes do a full tour with them or something, just to add another instrument or dynamic to the sound, and take more pressure off of Boyd and give people more of a break from the electric guitar. More people on stage = more work for everyone in the crew though, and not sure it's that worth it.
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Old 08-30-2017, 07:24 AM   #70
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See I disagree with both you and Monica, who made a similar comment the other day in regards to Jeff. Dropping Rashawn would leave Jeff to his own devices. Now, who knows what that would bring but I would certainly bet that he wouldn't just sit there. He would no longer have the "music director" standing next to him telling him when to play some cheesy cutesy horn line over already settled arrangements. Jeff isn't Roi obviously, but without someone standing there "directing" him, he would definitely be adding fills as time went on while he's there by himself. He was already doing that for years over much more complicated arrangements from Bela and Victor. Dude is a world class sax player, I'm pretty sure he would handle that role without the Caribbean dream either telling what and when to play or squeaking on top of him.

And the core issue that you mentioned is what you also believe is still the best part of the band, which is that heavy sound, layered by Tim. He needs to go as well. If a key player became involved then MAYBE it might balance out some of it, but the sound they've nestled into can only be changed through editing the lineup. And while I would love for Butch to come back, I wouldn't mind if another key player came aboard. I don't know what Butch's interest is in regards to the band. We do know even when he first started to really tour (not counting his '98/'99 guest spots), he mentioned how all he wanted to be was home with his kids. And that was in 2000. So who knows what his mindset is at the moment. Whether it's something that become a reality or not, I just think it would be great to see him up there again, hearing his fills.

And Bela would never join DMB. For one thing, the dude is one of the busiest musicians. He's a part of like 8 different acts. He just would never have time.
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Old 08-30-2017, 08:48 AM   #71
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I'm with Brandon for sure. Lineup needs a shakeup badly. The fact that this lineup has lasted longer than the years when Butch was an "every show" member of the band is telling. THAT lineup had gotten stale in less time. Sure, this lineup has had some breaks but it's still been too long. I haven't seen the band since 2014 and really don't find myself having much interest in going again until there's a lineup change.

That being said... I just don't see it happening. They seem pretty comfortable and they've never been the kind of group to shake things up "just because." Of course, I think I was saying the same thing 10 years ago and then very suddenly Tim was in and Butch was out. So who knows?
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:42 AM   #72
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Drop Rashawn, add butch or someone on keys. Keep Tim and Jeff. That's what I'd like to see that's still somewhat realistic.
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Old 08-30-2017, 11:01 AM   #73
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What we call "shaking it up" they would call "kicking a bandmate and friend out of the band." It's not losing the Ladies after a tour or two. None of it the least bit realistic or can be minimized from their perspective.

Of course, it's a valid response to the thread.
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Old 08-30-2017, 11:26 AM   #74
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Agreed 100% Rob. I don't think anyone would think these desires from a few fans would be something the band could (or even want to) easily do. But still something I wish would happen.
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Old 08-30-2017, 01:29 PM   #75
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I'm just tired of the electric guitar. I wish tim would go with the acoustic the whole show. Or atleast the majority of the show. IMO the electric is just too much on a lot of songs. It was cool in 2008 but now it's gotten stale.
I agree with this
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Old 08-30-2017, 02:46 PM   #76
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What we call "shaking it up" they would call "kicking a bandmate and friend out of the band." It's not losing the Ladies after a tour or two. None of it the least bit realistic or can be minimized from their perspective.

Of course, it's a valid response to the thread.
No doubt. I fully expect to get out to Alpine next summer and see Rashawn/Jeff and Tim up there with the 4 guys. And I understand why they would have a, "go fuck yourself" attitude towards my opinion.

I just think they're a better band, a more interesting listen, without Rashawn.
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Old 08-30-2017, 05:50 PM   #77
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No doubt. I fully expect to get out to Alpine next summer and see Rashawn/Jeff and Tim up there with the 4 guys. And I understand why they would have a, "go fuck yourself" attitude towards my opinion.

I just think they're a better band, a more interesting listen, without Rashawn.
I don't disagree. I only disagreed with "somewhat realistic."
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Old 08-30-2017, 06:41 PM   #78
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Wasn't it Roi who encouraged the whole canned horn lines crap to begin with? Let's not forget that Ross has been with the band fully since late 2005. And I just realized that's 5 years less than Roi.
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Old 08-30-2017, 07:49 PM   #79
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Wasn't it Roi who encouraged the whole canned horn lines crap to begin with? Let's not forget that Ross has been with the band fully since late 2005. And I just realized that's 5 years less than Roi.
I was telling someone the other day, we're getting pretty close to Rashawn being around for longer than Roi. Jeeze.

And yeah, it started with LeRoi. But who knows how that would have evolved. There was a ton of positive momentum from Roi in early 08. I really wish we could have seen where that would have ended up.
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Old 08-30-2017, 09:33 PM   #80
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And the core issue that you mentioned is what you also believe is still the best part of the band, which is that heavy sound, layered by Tim. He needs to go as well. If a key player became involved then MAYBE it might balance out some of it, but the sound they've nestled into can only be changed through editing the lineup. And while I would love for Butch to come back, I wouldn't mind if another key player came aboard.

And Bela would never join DMB. For one thing, the dude is one of the busiest musicians. He's a part of like 8 different acts. He just would never have time.
Tim is currently the only member that plays anything remotely interesting though. I would hate to see him go. I think a lot could be done with just toning down his rig a little bit--less overdrive/distortion...more clean tone, maybe work in the acoustic a little bit more.

You could be right about Jeff. But Jeff was doing a lot, and shredding solos back in '09 and '10 when Rashawn was still there. So, I'm not sure we can fully blame Rashawn for how Jeff's role has changed. Jeff himself could be enjoying the "musical direction" for all we know. I think he's been clear that he doesn't want to be Roi or even attempt to be.

And yeah, I know Bela is unrealistic as can be, but it's a pipedream for me. Unfortunately for your sake, I really don't see them doing anything with the lineup. I would be utterly shocked.
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