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Old 12-23-2017, 09:55 AM   #101
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Last Jedi seemed like a Star Wars movie made by someone that's never seen a Star Wars movie.
To me, Rian Johnson seems like a huge Star Wars fan who wanted to take things to a new and more interesting level. No one would ever accuse Batson or Ballard of that.

To me, Lucas's prequels a remind me of Batson/Ballard's work.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:55 AM   #102
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I always thought Attack of the Clones was the worst. That movie has not aged well at all.


I'm not upset with you or anything. I just wanted to clarify that. I mean it's just Star Wars at the end of the day
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Old 12-23-2017, 01:24 PM   #103
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I'm not upset with you or anything. I just wanted to clarify that. I mean it's just Star Wars at the end of the day
All good. Just some good discussion. I get the movie has its faults and isn't perfect. But the stuff I liked I really like. While I don't totally agree with how they have treated the original characters, I think they have done a great job in expanding and reinforcing the Force after the prequels totally destroyed it. I didn't care for Luke essentially dying, but he goes out as a major symbolic hero (once again)

TFA was a somewhat safe although entertaining return for the series. I just thought this film was a riskier and for me more enjoyable journey.
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Old 12-23-2017, 07:21 PM   #104
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I don't like comparing it to the prequels or the original, because that's just not fair imo. But just in terms of this trilogy alone....It's like you don't even have to watch Force Awakens to know what's going on in Last Jedi, and that defeats the purpose of a trilogy to me. You could literally just go from Return of The Jedi to this movie because nothing about this movie ties it to Force Awakens.
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:02 PM   #105
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I don't like comparing it to the prequels or the original, because that's just not fair imo. But just in terms of this trilogy alone....It's like you don't even have to watch Force Awakens to know what's going on in Last Jedi, and that defeats the purpose of a trilogy to me. You could literally just go from Return of The Jedi to this movie because nothing about this movie ties it to Force Awakens.
Without watching TFA you would know why Rey is just standing in front of Luke? Why she is handing him a light saber? Or who Rey even is? Or why Finn is incapacitated? Why Ren has a facial scar? Why Rey was so desperate to know who her parents are?

Do you even need to watch a new hope to know what's happening in Empire?
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:32 PM   #106
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With Marvel doing so well and charming out hit after hit, with great storytelling, I'm just really surprised at what happened with this trilogy. I guess it surprised me.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:37 PM   #107
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I see both sides to this debate -I liked it overall, but was disappointed with the direction they took with Luke, though as someone else said - the middle movie almost always sucks and this should lead to a nice third movie.

I left not having the same feeling of excitement as in the first one, but meh, it was fun to have another one to go see.....
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:56 PM   #108
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It still seems to me the issues with the trilogy are the issues laid out in TFA not this movie. The decision for Luke to be missing and secluded on an island were choices made from the first movie.
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Old 12-24-2017, 02:52 AM   #109
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Without watching TFA you would know why Rey is just standing in front of Luke? Why she is handing him a light saber? Or who Rey even is? Or why Finn is incapacitated? Why Ren has a facial scar? Why Rey was so desperate to know who her parents are?

Do you even need to watch a new hope to know what's happening in Empire?
I mean obviously Iím exaggerating a bit, the movie starts off where force awakens ends but thatís about it. The story really doesnít advance at all. The only thing important that happens is that Rey and Kylo both become stronger and Luke dies. The other parts of the movie really donít seem to matter much at all.
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Old 12-24-2017, 01:10 PM   #110
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im a little of a star Wars nerd. Not crazy but I frequent the star wars subreddit and listen to a podcast devoted to star wars.

The podcast is called Rebel Force Radio. as of this post, they have done 3 review shows. The first was within a few hours of seeing the movie. they were pretty high on the movie. The second one was within 24 hours of seeing the movie and they were aware of alot of criticism and kinda offended by it. They took calls and a few of the callers voiced some frustrations the guys got a little defensive. they were open to the criticism but still didnt understand it.

So far, on the third review podcast, which was released a few days ago, they had a regular guest, Kyle Newman, on the show, and he did a great job putting the right words to all the criticism out there. Stuff like
Spoiler:
mocking stuff from TFA (Po interupting Hux at the beginning was not only jarring, but mocked his speech in episode 7, Luke throwing the lightsaber, the maz scene) , inconsequential scenes (Canto Bight), and unresolved questions from TFA (Lor San Tekka, Snoke background).


I think I am starting to understand why I dont like it, but i am looking forward to seeing it again without all my expectations.
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Old 12-24-2017, 01:32 PM   #111
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Lor San Tekka was never meant to be anything beyond what they showed (at least film wise). I believe there is more information about him in the novels released with TFA. He was a galactic explorer and a member of the church of the force. He helped Luke track down various Jedi artifacts.

There are a lot of additional hints to Snokes background and the First Orders in general in some of these novels too. Not saying that is right or wrong when it comes to the movies, but there is information out there on various topics (including in the Visual Dictionary)

I don't recall all of Maz's dialogue. How did she contradict TFA?
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Old 12-24-2017, 04:17 PM   #112
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Lor San Tekka was never meant to be anything beyond what they showed (at least film wise). I believe there is more information about him in the novels released with TFA. He was a galactic explorer and a member of the church of the force. He helped Luke track down various Jedi artifacts.

There are a lot of additional hints to Snokes background and the First Orders in general in some of these novels too. Not saying that is right or wrong when it comes to the movies, but there is information out there on various topics (including in the Visual Dictionary)

I don't recall all of Maz's dialogue. How did she contradict TFA?
his point, and I agree, was that the movies never explained it. Most people that see these movies dont read the books or the comics (you are right, there is alot of Lor San Tekka stuff in the comics, which i will check out).

His point about Maz, was that in TFA, she came across as wise and potentially force sensitive. In TLJ, she looks ridiculous in her scene, and she sends Finn on a wild goose chase that is a complete waste of time.

His words are much better than mine, obviously.
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Old 12-24-2017, 04:27 PM   #113
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I agree they weren't explained in the movies and I said right or wrong the info is out there in other media. That's not new to Star Wars. But I also don't see what more needed to be explained there. You learn nothing of Tarkins past or the Emporer in the OT. They are bad dudes running the empire. That's all you need to know.
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Old 12-24-2017, 04:31 PM   #114
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What does Maz being Force sensitive have to do with her scene. She appears in a hologram for 1 minute of screen time.
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Old 12-24-2017, 06:28 PM   #115
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This is by far the most polarizing Star Wars movie ever though, right? Or would Return of the Jedi be? I personally love RotJ, but I know that some people don't.
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Old 12-24-2017, 07:59 PM   #116
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I agree they weren't explained in the movies and I said right or wrong the info is out there in other media. That's not new to Star Wars. But I also don't see what more needed to be explained there. You learn nothing of Tarkins past or the Emporer in the OT. They are bad dudes running the empire. That's all you need to know.
I actually agree with your first point. Thatís the cool thing about what can happen here as we discuss the movies. I actually watched RofJ with my son today as he gets ready to see TLJ and I thought about exactly what you said. Talking does have a whole book now and a few episodes in clone wars, but that speaks to your point. I do think fleshing our his character a little more before Darth Mauling him would have done the character good.

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What does Maz being Force sensitive have to do with her scene. She appears in a hologram for 1 minute of screen time.
Just that her scene in TLJ undermines her role in TFA. It was like a Skype call and ultimately has no bearing on the story other than to have Finn and Rose be responsible for the destruction of most of the fleet of the Resistance
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Old 12-24-2017, 08:01 PM   #117
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This is by far the most polarizing Star Wars movie ever though, right? Or would Return of the Jedi be? I personally love RotJ, but I know that some people don't.
I like RofJ the most. The scene with the force ghosts at the end may be my favorite scene of the entire Saga.
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Old 12-24-2017, 08:28 PM   #118
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I like RofJ the most. The scene with the force ghosts at the end may be my favorite scene of the entire Saga.


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Old 12-25-2017, 02:47 AM   #119
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Saw it again earlier today and it was definitely better the second time around. I think part of why I hated it so much was I went in with expectations that the questions in TFA would be addressed and answered and that maybe they would entertain some of/parts of the fan theories. So my expectations definitely made me feel dissapointed. Going in this time without thinking about it made it a better experience.

That being said, I do dislike a lot of things about it still. I actually don't mind the direction they are going with the Jedi/The Force stuff as much, and it kind of made more sense this time around. But never addressing some of the questions in TFA was annoying. And then questions they did address they made it seem like the fans are fools and idiots for trying to guess and theorize. The whole Rey's parents thing just felt like a total jab at that part of the community. "Oh, they're nobodies, left you for booze money and dead in a paupers grave in Jakku". People were laughing at that line because it probably was put in there as a direct "FU, we're not even going to tickle those ideas AT ALL". I didn't like that.

Totally agree about Maz too...the whole Finn side-plot really served no purpose (especially because their plan totally backfired and didn't help at all) and seemed like it was kind of forced/shoehorned in. Finn barely develops as a character..I mean, he's clearly willing to put his life on the line to beat the First Order. but we knew that in the first movie. Aside from the crazy chase through the city his plot-line was severely boring and made the movie as a whole drag a lot.
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Old 12-25-2017, 02:52 AM   #120
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The other thing that stuck out to me was Rose's line: "That's how we're going to win. Not by killing what we hate, but saving what we love." Still as cheesy as it gets, but I think that, in a nutshell, is where this trilogy is going. Rather than Rey killing Kylo Ren and destroying the first order, she probably along with some jedi-in training are going to convert him back to the light side and together they're going to end the first order and bring peace to the galaxy. So very similar to ROTJ except Kylo survives unlike Vader. Very disney-esque ending, but also a way to kind of end the whole back and forth of the Sith/Dark vs. Light/Good that just seems to never end. It's a way for the franchise to close the book for good on that specific storyline if they want, but also leaves it in a position to go somewhere if they do in the future want to keep it going. I wonder if JJ is going to do what he did in the first movie and have this next one mirror ROTJ note for note, or if he's going to make it different like Johnson.
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