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Old 04-08-2021, 10:29 AM   #14781
beitsaad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typsitch View Post
Honest question. Can you be concerned and call something out without being "outraged"? Can you have a fucking imagination, see patterns, and look past the next hour and not be "outraged"?

I guess if you don't just go with the "aw shucks" Goofy gif response you're "outraged".
fair, you can, but when it goes on and follows the tucker type talking poin it looks like outrage, probably the way text comes across i guess...i don't know..but i see your point, not everything is 'outrage'.
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Old 04-08-2021, 10:51 AM   #14782
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Originally Posted by DMBCLSTJ View Post
I honestly haven't read the new law in detail, but can anyone educate me on how it's discrimnitory? Are there any excerpts that you can post here. I'm genuinely curious.
Sure, I'll google for you, and provide details of the worst parts:





[Only registered users can see links.]

  • Voters will now have less time to request absentee ballots.
  • There are strict new ID requirements for absentee ballots.
  • It’s now illegal for election officials to mail out absentee ballot applications to all voters.
  • Drop boxes still exist … but barely.
  • Mobile voting centers (think an R.V. where you can vote) are essentially banned.
  • Early voting is expanded in a lot of small counties, but probably not in more populous ones.
  • Offering food or water to voters waiting in line now risks misdemeanor charges.
  • If you go to the wrong polling place, it will be (even) harder to vote.
  • If election problems arise, a common occurrence, it is now more difficult to extend voting hours.
  • With a mix of changes to vote-counting, high-turnout elections will probably mean a long wait for results.
  • Election officials can no longer accept third-party funding (a measure that nods to right-wing conspiracy theories).
  • With an eye toward voter fraud, the state attorney general will manage an election hotline.
  • The Republican-controlled legislature has more control over the State Election Board.
  • The secretary of state is removed as a voting member of the State Election Board.
  • The G.O.P.-led legislature is empowered to suspend county election officials.
  • Runoff elections will happen faster — and could become harder to manage.


--------
There are strict new ID requirements for absentee ballots.


Previously, Georgia law required voters to simply sign their absentee ballot applications. Now they will have to provide the number from a driver’s license or an equivalent state-issued identification. This is virtually certain to limit access to absentee voting.
The law also creates pitfalls for voters: If they fail to follow all the new steps, like printing a date of birth or in some cases including partial Social Security numbers, their ballots could be tossed out. Mr. Trump’s lawyers and allies urged judges and Republican officials last year to invalidate some ballots that were out of compliance. Stringent voter-ID laws in other states have depressed voting mostly among people of color.

----------

Early voting is expanded in a lot of small counties, but probably not in more populous ones.


These new strict rules on early voting hours are likely to curtail voting access for Georgians who work daytime hours or have less flexible schedules and who may be unable to return an absentee ballot.[...]


The law doesn’t require the availability of early voting on Sundays, which means that counties can choose whether to open for early voting on up to two Sundays before an election.
Counties that choose not to open on Sundays would be limiting ballot access for parishioners at Black churches that have [Only registered users can see links.] after Sunday services.
----------

Offering food or water to voters waiting in line now risks misdemeanor charges.

Perhaps no provision in the Georgia law has received more attention than this one, which effectively bars third-party groups or anyone else who is not an election worker from providing food and water to voters waiting in line. Republicans defended the provision, saying it is enforceable only within a 150-foot radius of polling places. Civil rights groups note that it also prevents assistance “within 25 feet of any voter standing in line to vote at any polling place.”

Long lines for voting in Georgia are an unfortunate reality, and are often found in the poorer, densely populated communities that tend to vote Democratic. During the primary election last June, when temperatures hovered above 80 degrees with high humidity, multiple voting locations across the state [Only registered users can see links.] .


Numerous studies have shown that long lines deter people from voting
---------------
Election officials can no longer accept third-party funding


Last year, as election officials faced countless challenges trying to hold voting during a pandemic, funding for the November general election became tied up in [Only registered users can see links.] over the second stimulus package.


Many local election jurisdictions in Georgia and other states, particularly those in poorer urban areas, turned to outside philanthropic groups like the Center for Tech and Civic Life, a nonprofit organization funded by Mark Zuckerberg that helped counties pay for their elections in 2020. Now Georgia has eliminated that option.
------------
The G.O.P.-led legislature is empowered to suspend county election officials.

Another power play by Republican state lawmakers. Tensions have long simmered between state and county election officials in Georgia, particularly in Fulton County, the largest Democratic hub in the state, where officials say they have been targeted and deprived of support by Republicans at the state level. Election officials in Fulton County, for their part, have had their historical share of mistakes and mismanagement.


Now the State Election Board, newly influenced by the partisan Legislature, will have the power to suspend county election officials.
[...]


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Old 04-08-2021, 11:03 AM   #14783
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What in that is discrimnitory?
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:13 AM   #14784
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First off, discriminatory is not my word. It's prohibitive of voting and prohibitive of free and fair elections.

Second, what was discriminatory about a poll tax? What was discriminatory about a literacy test?

Jim Crow laws didn't prohibit Blacks from voting. They simply provided the tools that could be applied to prohibit blacks from voting. Same here.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:18 AM   #14785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mario View Post
First off, discriminatory is not my word. It's prohibitive of voting and prohibitive of free and fair elections.

Second, what was discriminatory about a poll tax? What was discriminatory about a literacy test?

Jim Crow laws didn't prohibit Blacks from voting. They simply provided the tools that could be applied to prohibit blacks from voting. Same here.
ok, then explain to me how the above list is comparable to poll taxes and literacy tests. Explain to me how the list you gave could be applied to prohibit anyone from voting. Maybe I just don't see it as you, but rather than just give some list, explain to me how this is prohibitive of voting.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:33 AM   #14786
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Originally Posted by beitsaad View Post
ok, then explain to me how the above list is comparable to poll taxes and literacy tests. Explain to me how the list you gave could be applied to prohibit anyone from voting. Maybe I just don't see it as you, but rather than just give some list, explain to me how this is prohibitive of voting.

If you need an explanation of how:
  • Voters will now have less time to request absentee ballots.
  • There are strict new ID requirements for absentee ballots.
  • It’s now illegal for election officials to mail out absentee ballot applications to all voters.
  • Drop boxes still exist … but barely.
  • Mobile voting centers (think an R.V. where you can vote) are essentially banned.
  • If you go to the wrong polling place, it will be (even) harder to vote.
  • If election problems arise, a common occurrence, it is now more difficult to extend voting hours.
are prohibitive of voting, there's no good faith conversation to be had here.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:46 AM   #14787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mario View Post
Sure, I'll google for you, and provide details of the worst parts:





[Only registered users can see links.]

  • Voters will now have less time to request absentee ballots.
  • There are strict new ID requirements for absentee ballots.
  • It’s now illegal for election officials to mail out absentee ballot applications to all voters.
  • Drop boxes still exist … but barely.
  • Mobile voting centers (think an R.V. where you can vote) are essentially banned.
  • Early voting is expanded in a lot of small counties, but probably not in more populous ones.
  • Offering food or water to voters waiting in line now risks misdemeanor charges.
  • If you go to the wrong polling place, it will be (even) harder to vote.
  • If election problems arise, a common occurrence, it is now more difficult to extend voting hours.
  • With a mix of changes to vote-counting, high-turnout elections will probably mean a long wait for results.
  • Election officials can no longer accept third-party funding (a measure that nods to right-wing conspiracy theories).
  • With an eye toward voter fraud, the state attorney general will manage an election hotline.
  • The Republican-controlled legislature has more control over the State Election Board.
  • The secretary of state is removed as a voting member of the State Election Board.
  • The G.O.P.-led legislature is empowered to suspend county election officials.
  • Runoff elections will happen faster — and could become harder to manage.


--------
There are strict new ID requirements for absentee ballots.


Previously, Georgia law required voters to simply sign their absentee ballot applications. Now they will have to provide the number from a driver’s license or an equivalent state-issued identification. This is virtually certain to limit access to absentee voting.
The law also creates pitfalls for voters: If they fail to follow all the new steps, like printing a date of birth or in some cases including partial Social Security numbers, their ballots could be tossed out. Mr. Trump’s lawyers and allies urged judges and Republican officials last year to invalidate some ballots that were out of compliance. Stringent voter-ID laws in other states have depressed voting mostly among people of color.

----------

Early voting is expanded in a lot of small counties, but probably not in more populous ones.


These new strict rules on early voting hours are likely to curtail voting access for Georgians who work daytime hours or have less flexible schedules and who may be unable to return an absentee ballot.[...]


The law doesn’t require the availability of early voting on Sundays, which means that counties can choose whether to open for early voting on up to two Sundays before an election.
Counties that choose not to open on Sundays would be limiting ballot access for parishioners at Black churches that have [Only registered users can see links.] after Sunday services.
----------

Offering food or water to voters waiting in line now risks misdemeanor charges.

Perhaps no provision in the Georgia law has received more attention than this one, which effectively bars third-party groups or anyone else who is not an election worker from providing food and water to voters waiting in line. Republicans defended the provision, saying it is enforceable only within a 150-foot radius of polling places. Civil rights groups note that it also prevents assistance “within 25 feet of any voter standing in line to vote at any polling place.”

Long lines for voting in Georgia are an unfortunate reality, and are often found in the poorer, densely populated communities that tend to vote Democratic. During the primary election last June, when temperatures hovered above 80 degrees with high humidity, multiple voting locations across the state [Only registered users can see links.] .


Numerous studies have shown that long lines deter people from voting
---------------
Election officials can no longer accept third-party funding


Last year, as election officials faced countless challenges trying to hold voting during a pandemic, funding for the November general election became tied up in [Only registered users can see links.] over the second stimulus package.


Many local election jurisdictions in Georgia and other states, particularly those in poorer urban areas, turned to outside philanthropic groups like the Center for Tech and Civic Life, a nonprofit organization funded by Mark Zuckerberg that helped counties pay for their elections in 2020. Now Georgia has eliminated that option.
------------
The G.O.P.-led legislature is empowered to suspend county election officials.

Another power play by Republican state lawmakers. Tensions have long simmered between state and county election officials in Georgia, particularly in Fulton County, the largest Democratic hub in the state, where officials say they have been targeted and deprived of support by Republicans at the state level. Election officials in Fulton County, for their part, have had their historical share of mistakes and mismanagement.


Now the State Election Board, newly influenced by the partisan Legislature, will have the power to suspend county election officials.
[...]


First off, thanks for this.

Overall I really don't see the outrage its recieving. Certainly some power play moves by Republicans, no doubt.

On ID requirements, I don't really have an issue. If you don't read the instructions, assuming they are clear and concise, and don't put required information, then it stands to reason that vote doesn't count.

Sunday voting is relatively new, I don't know a soul that votes on Sunday's or even has that option to begin with so that seems to be a moot point. As far as restricted hours, we will have to see what they reduce them to. Our voting district all are open from 7 to 7 on voting day and early voting as well. If they are talking about closing them at 5, I see that as a big issue.

The Water/Food thing isn't really relevant. Bring your own food and beverage if you anticipate long lines. Georgia has a wait time site so you can check ahead of time. Personally I waited 15 minutes to vote last year, but I do acknowledge some areas had long wait times, because well, people went on the first 2 days of early voting which is always a mistake.

Just a few thoughts of mine. I know there are other perceived issues and I know you won't agree with me here but this is just how I feel. The outrage seems unfounded other than a few questionable changes, the restricted hours for one. I'll need to read more into this as well.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:55 AM   #14788
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Are there, really? This is a boomer "free market" conservative take. The "free market" that's in lock-step with leftist politics.
This is straight out of MGT's "Corporate Communism" language guide.

Quote:
Government policy arrives downstream of the culture
That's what this really comes down to, right? You are vehemently opposed to the idea that transgendered people exist and that companies may value diversity; these things animate you far, far more than actual government policy. So you find a post-hoc rationale for why its okay to base your political identity around arguing against non-political actors.
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the chances of there not being live in the universe anywhere but earth is astoundingly low. like 1 in 1^10000000000000000.
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Old 04-08-2021, 08:00 PM   #14789
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Biden and co. already talking compromise on corporate tax increases for the infrastructure plan.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:52 PM   #14790
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[Only registered users can see links.]
Gaetz sent two Venmo transactions amounting to $900 to accused sex trafficker Joel Greenberg in May 2018.

He labeled the first transaction “test” and the second transaction “hit up _____,” with the alleged nickname of a young woman.

Greenberg later sent money to three girls labeled as “Tuition,” “School” and “School" that totaled $900.
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Old 04-09-2021, 06:14 AM   #14791
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i bet you the Q people are going just apeshit over this. right? ... right?
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Old 04-09-2021, 06:16 AM   #14792
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i bet you the Q people are going just apeshit over this. right? ... right?
Well it was supposed to be related to Epstein stuff, so this is coming out of left field....but maybe, just maybe, it is coming from Epstein and he's still alive and telling the cops everything!
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Old 04-09-2021, 07:47 AM   #14793
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i bet you the Q people are going just apeshit over this. right? ... right?
But Q people don't believe things on the internet, right?
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Old 04-12-2021, 03:11 PM   #14794
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When you put the NCAA up on the moral high ground... my gawd


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Old 04-13-2021, 11:43 AM   #14795
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oh man, this was great. I really didn't care for Boehner, but you know it's something when even he says Ted Cruz is "The most miserable son of bitch I had to deal with."




and here is the first part of the interview:

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Old 04-13-2021, 11:58 AM   #14796
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oh man, this was great. I really didn't care for Boehner, but you know it's something when even he says Ted Cruz is "The most miserable son of bitch I had to deal with."




and here is the first part of the interview:

This was a good watch. Thanks for posting.
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Old 04-15-2021, 05:45 AM   #14797
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Real question: Is this a crisis at the border or just a bunch of Republican smoke? I haven't read much about it to be honest as i've taken a break from most news and the news i do see is bias, which is why i ask.
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Old 04-15-2021, 07:53 AM   #14798
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What’s the point in caring? The left has won. We will never have a conservative president again. People are way too dumbed down and dependent on government. Just resigned to it all, focusing on myself bro
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Old 04-15-2021, 09:37 AM   #14799
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Real question: Is this a crisis at the border or just a bunch of Republican smoke? I haven't read much about it to be honest as i've taken a break from most news and the news i do see is bias, which is why i ask.
I and Rev Fig (in much much much greater detail) posted about this last week:




Quote:
Originally Posted by mario View Post





A "crisis" invented whole cloth by people who can't win elections talking about how they vote.





Quote:
Originally Posted by rev fig View Post
Biden is completely mucking it up. Trump's immigration policies were an unmitigated disaster: they were deliberately cruel and inhumane, it was a massive waste of spending and increase in bureaucracy, a long-term harm to our economy through blocking, discouraging, and reducing legal immigration, and most of all, completely unsuccessful at anything it tried to be, beyond establishing a culture of hostility to immigrants, both in government and in the Republican Party.

When I joined the GOP, we were the party of legal immigration and our battles were with labor Democrats who hated competition, regardless of myriad economic benefits of immigrants. Now, thanks 100% to Trump and the white nationalist Stephen Miller, the GOP is fervently anti-immigrant, and anybody who wishes to be a Republican needs to be anti-immigrant, as well.

The opportunity was there for Biden to wipe away Trump's cruel, inhumane, and unsuccessful policies and wear the mantle of legal immigration, and use the bully pulpit to propel forward policies that have 65% public support, like protecting Dreamers and a pathway to citizenship for those already here.

Instead, Biden has carried forward Trump's terrible policies. Be clear about this: Biden hasn't implemented anything new at the border, and the migration trends we are currently seeing starting under Trump's watch.

The rate of single adults seeking asylum at the border has been rising month-over-month for 8 months, as a result of the illegal Title 42 policy of expelling migrants as soon as they are encountered; because it is an explusion and not a deportation, migrants are incentivized to try again and again, and they have been, resulting in a spike in encounters.

Meanwhile, families have been turned back as well - until December and January, when Mexican facilities at the border announced they were reaching capacity and Mexico started refusing to take in family units. That led to an increase in families being released into the country; again, this started under Trump's watch. Biden has taken the completely wrong approach in vowing to keep Trump's policy of turning families away.

Finally, the surge in unaccompanied children is due to turning away families through the illegal application of Title 42. In November 2020, a federal court ruled that the Trump Administration couldn't expel unaccompanied children. Again, the surge of migrants here has been happening for months and started under Trump. Biden didn't create this policy - he inherited it.

What we're seeing in BP facilities is a humanitarian crisis, and one created by the Trump Administration, who purposefully dismantled as much of the legal asylum process as they could, and routinely violated the Flores Agreement to do so. Biden's folks are working fast, but obviously not fast enough, nor did they forsee the political opportunism on the right to hypocritcally make hay of the issue.

This is a humanitarian crisis with a short-term, mid-term, and long-term solution.

In the short-term, capacity needs to increase and quickly, to process children and families from BP detention facilities to HHS and to sponsors as quickly as possible. The overcrowded conditions are 100% a result of the lack of capacity and the slowness of the process. Once capacity is solved, rescind the Title 42 policy and restore the legal asylum process.

In the mid-term, and absent any consensus legislation from Congress that overhauls ayslum (lol - Republicans will only accept shooting asylum-seekers on sight as a policy), Biden needs to hire a ton more immigration judges to process cases a lot more quickly.

In the long-term, and absent any consensus legislation from Congress that opens up legal immigration (lol - Republicans want to end legal immigration), then the solution is to do what they're doing with VP Harris, and invest in Central American countries to mitigate the root causes of migration.

The good news is that, despite his opening stumbles of continuing Trump's disaster, Biden looks to be trying to do those things. And any immigration reform we can get would be gravy - though at this point, I'm not expecting anything, as even a Dream Act that 80% of the country supports seems unlikely to pick up any Republican support from the anti-immigrant GOP in the Senate.





Quote:
Originally Posted by rev fig View Post
It's the classic case of push come to shove. How many GOP votes do you think there would be for ending legal immigration entirely (as MGT and others in the House want to do) versus supporting the DREAM Act? That tells you all you need to know about what's a "staple" in the party.



Disagree with this characterization. Biden promised a more humane treatment; but "asylum" isn't something to be promised - it's law, duly passed by Congress. Trump repeatedly violated that law (because "law and order" only applies to laws they like), and now Biden is doing the same.

Should there have been more of a plan or anticipation of the challenges in advance? Perhaps, but Biden and co. are also fighting a complete dismantling of the asylum process, which probably wasn't able to fully assess until in office (and a shortened transition due to Trump's fake claims of an stolen election didn't help), as well as continuing bureaucratic inertia (plenty of holdovers who share Trump's vision of punishing migrants). Doing all this amidst a pandemic only complicates things further.

There actually isn't a flood of migrants across the border. It's on par with, if a little behind, previous years, and far below a few decades ago (the chart that someone else helpfully posted). This year's "surge" is also inflated by repeat crossers, who are trying again and again after being immediately expelled - a rate of recidivism never seen before at the border.

Mostly, the failure is one of messaging and communications - but the thing about bad faith arguments from Republicans is that it doesn't really matter what the situation is. Case in point: Biden is expelling as many migrants as Trump did due to the legally dubious Title 42 application, but is still accused of being "open borders" - a term that has as little meaning as "cancel culture". To say Biden "opened himself" to this criticism is to say he existed and Republicans are shameless about blatant hypocrisy.



No. He can do what Obama did in setting up DACA in the first place.



lolwut? Foreign aid is a microscopic portion of our budget.



Migrants are typically re-settled across the country, not just at the border. It's only when things have reached the point where we drop off people at a bus station in El Paso (something that happened routinely under Trump) that it puts any stress on local communities - but those communities are also pretty welcoming to migrants, and non-profits exist there to help pick up the slack.

But in terms of policy, you can always incentivize people to move to less common destinations of migration. This is a tried-and-true method to spread population density for centuries.

I also disagree with the idea that opinions exist at a statewide-level. There are plenty of voters who support asylum in Texas, and plenty who don't support it in Maine.





Quote:
Originally Posted by rev fig View Post
It's Biden saying he'll follow US law when it comes to asylum; this isn't something a President "offers". (The fact that he's currently violating the law with Title 42 expulsions aside.)



And his immigration reform bill was promptly introduced into Congress. Not only that, but anticipating complete lack of Republican support on anything that isn't hostile to immigration, Biden and Democrats have also pursued contingency plans to break apart and focus on more achievable wins first, like protecting Dreamers (again, supported by 80% of Americans and next-to-no Congressional Republicans).

Moreover, he's signed EOs on immigration as well - lifting the Muslim ban, ending the phony national emergency that authorized stealing funds from DoD to fund the border wall that Congress rejected, lifting the refugee cap (though he actually hasn't signed that one yet, for some reason). He's furthered protections from TPS recipients and announced new ones from Venezuela, and he's ended challenges in court to injunctions that stopped onerous Trump policies, like the public charge.

While he hasn't done anything that would impact migration flow on the border, he's also ended the Remain in Mexico policy that created the humanitarian crisis on the border for the past three years and was a windfall for coyotes. And he's scrapped plans to implement the ACAs with Guatemala, El Salvador, and Guatemala (these were announced and touted by Trump, but never actually implemented until like 3 weeks before Biden took office, so they've had no impact so far).

I wish Biden would scrap Title 42, put pen to paper on lifting the refugee cap, and have a better communications roll-out on how to fix asylum, but he's done a lot in a short amount of time, as he promised.



Foreign aid to El Salvador is $85,000,000 a year.
The F-35 program, which is a failure, cost $1,500,000,000,000.
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Old 04-15-2021, 03:18 PM   #14800
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The Florida House of Representatives today passed a bill authorizing GENITAL INSPECTIONS of children. For the sanctity of sports ball.
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