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Old 04-30-2011, 06:43 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by jsandr View Post
I really don't see it deviating from DMB's middle of the road THAT much. That's why I mentioned, as well, that there's parts of the record that really try to harken back to older DMB tradition (Hands of God, Gator Pie, Spaceman).

Look, I think BW was 'more pleasant than not', but it's not what this band is capable of. Radio rock doesn't have to be bad (PJ, FF), but BW was more safe than anything. I don't want safe and pleasant. I'd be interested in inspired and ambitious.
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I'd agree with that. I think it's a little more ambitious, but it's a good album, it's not a great album. I wasn't disagreeing about quality. I was just wondering how it could be taken as a mainstream album, since most of it doesn't really sound like anything that tops pop charts right now. That was my only point.
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Old 04-30-2011, 07:26 PM   #122
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while they aren't as big as they once were, isn't everything DMB does mainstream by virtue of them being DMB?
I can see your point, but what if they put out an album like LWS vs. Everyday/BW? That was the whole point of them scrapping the album, there were no "tripping billies" songs they could market off of. They were huge then, so in theory everybody should have been fine with those songs and shouldn't have feared how well it would have done because DMB was putting it out.
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Old 04-30-2011, 07:27 PM   #123
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while they aren't as big as they once were, isn't everything DMB does mainstream by virtue of them being DMB?
I'd agree with that, although I'd say there's a difference between mainstream and popular; I'd feel like DMB is more the latter than the former. However, it seems like when someone calls BW a mainstream pop-rock album, they have a different definition of it. When I hear something is a mainstream pop album, I think of the top 40, what's on the radio. I think of Nickelback and Rihanna.

I guess I'm talking in circles, but it seems like people (like ggies above me) are clearly using it as a criticism, and I'm just trying to figure out how BW could be considered a mainstream album beyond the sole fact that it's popular. Because there's nothing at the top of the pop charts that sounds like the overwhelming majority of DMB, if not all of it.

It feels like sometimes people interchange, "I think this sucks" with "I think this is mainstream".
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Old 04-30-2011, 07:32 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by inmytree View Post
I'd agree with that, although I'd say there's a difference between mainstream and popular; I'd feel like DMB is more the latter than the former. However, it seems like when someone calls BW a mainstream pop-rock album, they have a different definition of it. When I hear something is a mainstream pop album, I think of the top 40, what's on the radio. I think of Nickelback and Rihanna.

I guess I'm talking in circles, but it seems like people (like ggies above me) are clearly using it as a criticism, and I'm just trying to figure out how BW could be considered a mainstream album beyond the sole fact that it's popular. Because there's nothing at the top of the pop charts that sounds like the overwhelming majority of DMB, if not all of it.
They were "popular" making Crash and BTCS and made those albums on their own musical tastes.

They are "mainstream" for making Everyday/SU/BW.

They have been and are currently making mainstream records to stay popular instead of making records for music sake.
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Old 04-30-2011, 07:37 PM   #125
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Two things with that point...first off, ED and SU are what they are, but at some point I just don't think it matters anymore. They made two bad albums, they fucked up creatively. One of those albums was ten years ago, and one of them was six years ago. They're in no way representative of where the band is now. They've stopped playing pretty much every song from those two albums, certainly in any consistent manner. They seem to think about those albums way, WAY less than we do. I don't feel any need to defend the band on those two counts cause they're pretty irrelevant. They fucked up and made two bad albums. At some point, who cares?

Second, if you can point me to what song on here [Only registered users can see links.] BW is aping, I'd be interested to hear it. I don't really see any trend on that chart that BW is following, and wouldn't it have to for what you're saying to make sense?

If you don't like BW, that's one thing, but that doesn't make it commercial for commercial's sake.
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Old 04-30-2011, 07:50 PM   #126
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Two things with that point...first off, ED and SU are what they are, but at some point I just don't think it matters anymore. They made two bad albums, they fucked up creatively. One of those albums was ten years ago, and one of them was six years ago. They're in no way representative of where the band is now. They've stopped playing pretty much every song from those two albums, certainly in any consistent manner. They seem to think about those albums way, WAY less than we do. I don't feel any need to defend the band on those two counts cause they're pretty irrelevant. They fucked up and made two bad albums. At some point, who cares?

Second, if you can point me to what song on here [Only registered users can see links.] BW is aping, I'd be interested to hear it. I don't really see any trend on that chart that BW is following, and wouldn't it have to for what you're saying to make sense?

If you don't like BW, that's one thing, but that doesn't make it commercial for commercial's sake.
ok, I get that.

So do you think they just did not want to be too creative on this past album? Everything seemed so definite. I mean, there were no horns on Spaceman, but it sounds great with them live. I don't know....it's a good album from the past 10 years, but I see no reason for them to stayed together, especially since not all members are there, to create more music like this.....they are at the end of this band's career. Balls to the walls.
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Old 04-30-2011, 07:59 PM   #127
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No, I don't think they went in saying we don't want to be too creative. I guess it's just a different thought on it; I don't think that just because they're not equaling their best albums they should break up. If they were pumping out Stand Up after Stand Up, maybe, but they're not. If I applied that idea to every band I like, there'd be a lot less albums that I really enjoyed. Should PJ break up because Backspacer's not as good as Vitalogy? Should Radiohead break up cause King of Limbs isn't anywhere near Kid A?
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Old 04-30-2011, 08:06 PM   #128
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i don't think SU is mainstream at all, i just think it sucks.
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Old 04-30-2011, 08:11 PM   #129
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Yeah, I was saying Stand Up in terms of being that bad, not necessarily in terms of it being commercial.
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Old 04-30-2011, 08:50 PM   #130
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Re: If this band ever makes another album...

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while they aren't as big as they once were, isn't everything DMB does mainstream by virtue of them being DMB?
I can see your point, but what if they put out an album like LWS vs. Everyday/BW? That was the whole point of them scrapping the album, there were no "tripping billies" songs they could market off of. They were huge then, so in theory everybody should have been fine with those songs and shouldn't have feared how well it would have done because DMB was putting it out.
I'm not sure what this has to do with what I posted. Or I should say I am not sure why you are arguing with what I posted.
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Old 05-01-2011, 02:59 PM   #131
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they should just work with cavallo again. i'm tired of the lillywhite pipe dream constantly being tossed around.
It's worth at least noting that the one song, according to what's been said out there after BW was released, that was truly a product of the current lineup + Cavallo -- and not written and produced as a way of including the tracks LeRoi had laid down before he died -- was Squirm.

I'll take 10 tracks of that on the next album.
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Old 05-01-2011, 07:36 PM   #132
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It's worth at least noting that the one song, according to what's been said out there after BW was released, that was truly a product of the current lineup + Cavallo -- and not written and produced as a way of including the tracks LeRoi had laid down before he died -- was Squirm.

I'll take 10 tracks of that on the next album.
I hadn't heard this. That's pretty awesome, if true. And I'm with you. I could live with an entire album of that quality.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:47 AM   #133
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It's hard to throw blame around on people when we don't really know the whole story. Things are obviously different than were 12 years ago. Personally, and like I said, I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, but if I had to blame something, I'm gonna say that Dave needs to sit down and really write what comes to his mind again. He needs to lock himself in a room for a week and just pour out his soul, bring those ideas to the band, and get them to add their embellished sickness to it.

I think the problem with their later albums is it seems like the whole band is trying to get involved in the writing process which is cool in theory, but it's just a fact of nature--not everyone in a band can write good songs, and the people who write good songs and have consistently wrote good songs that people like, should remain the main songwriters.
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Old 05-02-2011, 03:20 PM   #134
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I hadn't heard this. That's pretty awesome, if true. And I'm with you. I could live with an entire album of that quality.
yep. Squirm was a completely post LeRoi creation, which is pretty cool, b/c that's definitely on of the most uniques songs on the album and probably my favorite as well.
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Old 05-02-2011, 06:26 PM   #135
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yep. Squirm was a completely post LeRoi creation, which is pretty cool, b/c that's definitely on of the most uniques songs on the album and probably my favorite as well.
I did not know this, but I am happy that I have learned this now
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:16 PM   #136
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Maybe it's the type of fans that have attached to this band in the recent years and come on this board, but I love just sitting back and listening to them play.

Ex. - Listening to TS from my show 8.20.04. I could listen to Roi riff over songs all day.

I love a 'fast ball' song as Dave says, but they are so talented that it's almost better just listening to them play their more involved songs.

I hope they make a more musically involved album next time.
Just because there aren't "jams" doesn't mean that the music isn't "musically involved."
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:24 PM   #137
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I don't even know what musically involved means.
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:28 PM   #138
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i have a feeling ggies just wants time signature changes and shit like the Typical jam.
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:33 PM   #139
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:15 PM   #140
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i have a feeling ggies just wants time signature changes and shit like the Typical jam.
nothin wrong with that.
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