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Old 04-26-2011, 07:47 AM   #41
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Why do musicians write their best music in their 20's and 30's but most great writers don't write their best books until their 30's and keep churning on after that?
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:12 AM   #42
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If this band ever makes another album...

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Old 04-26-2011, 08:28 AM   #43
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there also may be an age component with the audience as well. What ears/eyes find the artist at what point in their lives. Just thinking out loud, but the younger audience that found dmb around college age are going to change much more drastically than say a reader that finds Steven King when they are 35. I think a twenty something is looking to music to fulfill them in some way, and most people shift from that type of thinking when you are older.
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Old 04-26-2011, 02:17 PM   #44
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Why do musicians write their best music in their 20's and 30's but most great writers don't write their best books until their 30's and keep churning on after that?
Good writing takes great life experience. It's hard to write a good book at age 21, when your entire life has been mostly unimportant bullshit and you lack perspective on how the world works day-to-day. You can kinda fake your way through a couple of verses and a refrain sounding profound and introspective, but carrying that over 350 pages is entirely different.
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What's this about 'extended delay?' Hardened boarders know TDC was only down for two days: the day it went down, and the day it went back up.
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Old 04-26-2011, 02:30 PM   #45
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lyrics are more about emotion than books are, imo, and raw emotion is easier to tap into at an earlier age because it's just pouring out of you anyway.
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:00 PM   #46
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Even with authors though, it's usually the same thing; not necessarily at a young age, but you seem to enter a period where you consistently make your best work. Directors, also; it's rare to see a director's three best films made at 25, 45, and 65. You probably just get into a rhythm where everything clicks, then you lose it. There's exceptions, but they seem to prove the rule. Even with Dylan, he had a peak from Bringing it All Back --> Blonde On Blonde, U2 with Joshua Tree --> Achtung Baby, Springsteen from Born To Run to Nebraska.

I mean, DMB is a good example. They worked harder and longer on BW than any of their first three albums. They worked it for well over a year with some breaks. Dave, I'm pretty sure concentrated solely on lyrics for months. And at the end of it, they still didn't have an album that could reach that level. I just think when you take that into account, it has little, if anything, to do with Lillywhite, or Dave writing the songs first, or having long jams, or whatever. They just didn't have the raw material there to make a classic album. I don't really see that as a bad thing, either. Just because a band's not capable of releasing their best work doesn't mean it's worthless.

Last edited by inmytree; 04-26-2011 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:09 PM   #47
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i could agree with that
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:42 PM   #48
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Even with authors though, it's usually the same thing; not necessarily at a young age, but you seem to enter a period where you consistently make your best work. Directors, also; it's rare to see a director's three best films made at 25, 45, and 65. You probably just get into a rhythm where everything clicks, then you lose it. There's exceptions, but they seem to prove the rule. Even with Dylan, he had a peak from Bringing it All Back --> Blonde On Blonde, U2 with Joshua Tree --> Achtung Baby, Springsteen from Born To Run to Nebraska.

I mean, DMB is a good example. They worked harder and longer on BW than any of their first three albums. They worked it for well over a year with some breaks. Dave, I'm pretty sure concentrated solely on lyrics for months. And at the end of it, they still didn't have an album that could reach that level. I just think when you take that into account, it has little, if anything, to do with Lillywhite, or Dave writing the songs first, or having long jams, or whatever. They just didn't have the raw material there to make a classic album. I don't really see that as a bad thing, either. Just because a band's not capable of releasing their best work doesn't mean it's worthless.
i will forever be convinced that they need lillywhite to push them in the direction we came to love. look at the LS compared to busted stuff... And everything that has come out since. The man had an ear and vision for the band that nobody has come close to since.
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:55 PM   #49
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Hi, I'm a wandering youth with a hopeful attitude towards life but I just can't seem to shake this feeling that life is worthless and we're all just pawns in a greater game.

Hi, I'm a filthy rich millionaire with a wife and kids.

Who's gonna write the better song?
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:00 PM   #50
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Hi, I'm a wandering youth with a hopeful attitude towards life but I just can't seem to shake this feeling that life is worthless and we're all just pawns in a greater game.

Hi, I'm a filthy rich millionaire with a wife and kids.

Who's gonna write the better song?
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:02 PM   #51
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i will forever be convinced that they need lillywhite to push them in the direction we came to love. look at the LS compared to busted stuff... And everything that has come out since. The man had an ear and vision for the band that nobody has come close to since.
Well, when it comes to ED and Stand Up, it's hard not to view them as special cases. There are very clear reasons, at least IMO, why those ended up as badly as they did. So that was a combo of poor luck and judgment on the band's part. Other than that, I just don't see it. I don't think there's an easy fix as in, put Lillywhite back in the picture and they'll suddenly write great songs again. They're a band that have been writing and playing together for over 20 years now, and have lost a founding member. At some point, you're just not consistently making your best stuff anymore. At 20 years, U2 got back together with the producers that made their best records (including Steve Lillywhite), and even then they made an album that didn't come close to their highest achievements. I think that's where DMB is at, more than them doing anything really wrong.
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:04 PM   #52
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Yeah Lillywhite had less to do with it than people give him credit for. Not to say he didn't make Dave work harder, but there was more to work with back then as well.

I would say Ballard damaged Dave's lyric writing more than Lillywhite helped his lyric writing, if you follow me. When Everyday pulled in the kind of sales it did with minimal effort that spelled the end of this band trying hard.
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:11 PM   #53
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Hi, I'm a wandering youth with a hopeful attitude towards life but I just can't seem to shake this feeling that life is worthless and we're all just pawns in a greater game.

Hi, I'm a filthy rich millionaire with a wife and kids.

Who's gonna write the better song?
Bang on.
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:14 PM   #54
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Yeah Lillywhite had less to do with it than people give him credit for.
I'm talking more about the sound, ie: layers, not sounding polished, etc.. We haven't heard it that good since LS, which wasn't even finished yet. He had a way of making them sound JUST like they should in the studio. All these bands want to recreate their live sound in the studio and they can't. Why even attempt it. What was wrong with the way they were playing/sounding in the studio back in the day relative to how happy they are with the sound they're getting now? I don't see why you have to mimic your live sound in the studio setting. They just haven't sounded as good since. Live? Sure, they are incredible and their sound is massive. No need for that in the studio. Stick to layering and get that old "sound" back again next time around.

(which they won't).
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:15 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .Gary. View Post
Hi, I'm a wandering youth with a hopeful attitude towards life but I just can't seem to shake this feeling that life is worthless and we're all just pawns in a greater game.

Hi, I'm a filthy rich millionaire with a wife and kids.

Who's gonna write the better song?
exactly.
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:16 PM   #56
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I'm talking more about the sound, ie: layers, not sounding polished, etc.. We haven't heard it that good since LS, which wasn't even finished yet. He had a way of making them sound JUST like they should in the studio. All these bands want to recreate their live sound in the studio and they can't. Why even attempt it. What was wrong with the way they were playing/sounding in the studio back in the day relative to how happy they are with the sound they're getting now? I don't see why you have to mimic your live sound in the studio setting. They just haven't sounded as good since. Live? Sure, they are incredible and their sound is massive. No need for that in the studio. Stick to layering and get that old "sound" back again next time around.

(which they won't).
Have they been trying to recreate their live sound? Besides BS, I wouldn't say any of the records since Lillywhite left have done that. Some of them, namely ED or Stand Up, would have been better if they had.

I think BW has a ton of layering. It's just that the songs aren't as good.
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:18 PM   #57
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Well, when it comes to ED and Stand Up, it's hard not to view them as special cases. There are very clear reasons, at least IMO, why those ended up as badly as they did. So that was a combo of poor luck and judgment on the band's part. Other than that, I just don't see it. I don't think there's an easy fix as in, put Lillywhite back in the picture and they'll suddenly write great songs again. They're a band that have been writing and playing together for over 20 years now, and have lost a founding member. At some point, you're just not consistently making your best stuff anymore. At 20 years, U2 got back together with the producers that made their best records (including Steve Lillywhite), and even then they made an album that didn't come close to their highest achievements. I think that's where DMB is at, more than them doing anything really wrong.
Which is exactly my point. They've been around for a long time and have millions of dollars. There is no need to make adult-contemporary music/mainstream music. They could make a more musically involved type of album, hell, that's what Jeff has done with the Flecktones for years!
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:23 PM   #58
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I think I may have a different opinion on what's considered 'mainstream' music. I mean, I wouldn't really call what they did on the last album mainstream music, regardless of what I think of it's content.
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:27 PM   #59
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Dave's writing is a combination of a lot of things...getting older, having kids, being ridiculously rich, not having the drive to "make it" anymore, being taught the "joy of songwriting" by Glen Ballard, internal strife, etc.

Ballard played a big role in the outright cheese we get a lot of now though. I think Batson just sucked their asses and told them everything they did was great ("that's a song"). No challenge at all.
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:29 PM   #60
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Stick to layering and get that old "sound" back again next time around.

(which they won't).
BW has a lot of layering.

edit: what inmytree said
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