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Old 04-28-2018, 12:19 PM   #21
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help myself studio is such a strong fucking song
Always liked it. Help Myself is such an underrated song it’s unreal. Might be their most underrated. Shit like Shotgun gets talked about like it’s gold, and this treasure of a song falls under the radar a lot of the time. For me it’s in my top 20. I think that’ll be the next in depth Song Discussion thread.
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Old 04-28-2018, 12:22 PM   #22
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Always liked it. Help Myself is such an underrated song it’s unreal. Might be their most underrated. Shit like Shotgun gets talked about like it’s gold, and this treasure of a song falls under the radar a lot of the time. For me it’s in my top 20. I think that’ll be the next in depth Song Discussion thread.
great post

it might be my top 10 - although top 20 may be more realistic. also - i personally like to distinguish b/t studio cuts and live cuts

definitely better than Shotgun and yes it may be there most underratted song. i'm very happy to have seen it live a few times. VERY GOOD LYRICS, no cheese, and very great instrumentation
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Old 04-28-2018, 12:26 PM   #23
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I often forget Help Myself exists. But I do love it. 2003 was great for it.
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Old 04-28-2018, 01:05 PM   #24
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Help myself is good but not great
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Old 04-28-2018, 01:24 PM   #25
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Anyone remember that dmb fansite Dangerous Hours???
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Old 04-28-2018, 01:31 PM   #26
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Anyone remember that dmb fansite Dangerous Hours???
Ha ha. That was my site.

Cringeworthy looking back on it, but fun at the time.
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Old 04-28-2018, 01:32 PM   #27
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I loved it!
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Old 04-28-2018, 01:35 PM   #28
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Thanks man.
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Old 04-28-2018, 01:52 PM   #29
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Help myself is good but not great
What would you put above it? (Other than the obvious songs)
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Old 04-28-2018, 02:13 PM   #30
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I'm hoping part 2 is better, I found much of that just hearing Steve talk about himself and high-level views on mixing and producing that didn't really get into the band. A few anecdotes about the band but I'd like a lot more.

I wonder if a format similar to director commentary on movies would work for something like this. Play the entire album through at low volume and see where it takes you as memories pop into Steve's head.
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Old 04-28-2018, 02:18 PM   #31
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I'm hoping part 2 is better, I found much of that just hearing Steve talk about himself and high-level views on mixing and producing that didn't really get into the band. A few anecdotes about the band but I'd like a lot more.

I wonder if a format similar to director commentary on movies would work for something like this. Play the entire album through at low volume and see where it takes you as memories pop into Steve's head.
I thought we got a lot of cool info in that first part, not as in depth as you might want but there’s a whole part 2. I loved hearing about the process, and why Steve thought it was so good. Never knew he was struggling with sobriety at all, cool to hear that he was totally dialed in. Clearly so was the band which helps explain why it’s so damn good. Also interesting to hear about LWS and he alluded to “big money” being part of the problem as well as “pulling teeth” for songs.

Lilly white does come off prettt damn arrogant in the interview, but if any producer has a right to be, it’d be him. He’s worked on so many iconic albums.
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Old 04-28-2018, 03:05 PM   #32
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I'm chomping at the bit for Part 2 and a LWS interview.
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Old 04-28-2018, 09:51 PM   #33
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Worth noting: my wife is sick in bed, my kids are asleep, and I have been drinking. Heavily.

When first hearing Lillywhite’s comment in this podcast about dreaming tree representing the last stand of dave’s song writing I rebuffed it, as my brain immediately jumped to Captain and BEF from the LWS. But I’m listening to BTCS now, as there was no way I was letting the 20th anniversary of my all time favorite album go by w/o giving it a spin, and I just hit Dreaming Tree. Steve is right! Dreaming Tree was dave summing up the entirety of the band. There is a begining, where purity, innocence, and a skies the limit mentality lead the way. Then, eventually, before we would like to think, everything is corrupted. On the studio cut (afaik, never replicated live) Dave very clearly says, “Too much time,” before going into the “take me back, save me please,” part. And that is just it! He basically hit empty here. He was a victim of ‘too much time.’

Everything is perfect, to a point. Then, it fades. It turns. That is what everything in dreaming tree is. That is what this band is. That is what life is. Too much time and we all get got. It sounds so fucking stupid but Lillywhite talks about ‘big money,’ changing everything following this album. This was the last stand. This was literally ‘before these crowded streets’ for dmb. Dave was predicting nothing would ever be the same after this and, 20 years has shown us, it never was.
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Old 04-28-2018, 10:00 PM   #34
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It hit me today when I read that too. It also killed just about any interest I had in the new release. I have always wished it would've been
BTCS
LWS
Fini

(also drunk)
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Old 04-28-2018, 10:32 PM   #35
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Yeah, I think that's why The Dreaming Tree is such a powerful song. It's about the creative process of living.
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Old 04-28-2018, 10:46 PM   #36
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Worth noting: my wife is sick in bed, my kids are asleep, and I have been drinking. Heavily.

When first hearing Lillywhite’s comment in this podcast about dreaming tree representing the last stand of dave’s song writing I rebuffed it, as my brain immediately jumped to Captain and BEF from the LWS. But I’m listening to BTCS now, as there was no way I was letting the 20th anniversary of my all time favorite album go by w/o giving it a spin, and I just hit Dreaming Tree. Steve is right! Dreaming Tree was dave summing up the entirety of the band. There is a begining, where purity, innocence, and a skies the limit mentality lead the way. Then, eventually, before we would like to think, everything is corrupted. On the studio cut (afaik, never replicated live) Dave very clearly says, “Too much time,” before going into the “take me back, save me please,” part. And that is just it! He basically hit empty here. He was a victim of ‘too much time.’

Everything is perfect, to a point. Then, it fades. It turns. That is what everything in dreaming tree is. That is what this band is. That is what life is. Too much time and we all get got. It sounds so fucking stupid but Lillywhite talks about ‘big money,’ changing everything following this album. This was the last stand. This was literally ‘before these crowded streets’ for dmb. Dave was predicting nothing would ever be the same after this and, 20 years has shown us, it never was.
Treasure slowly fades
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Old 04-28-2018, 10:51 PM   #37
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It hit me today when I read that too. It also killed just about any interest I had in the new release. I have always wished it would've been
BTCS
LWS
Fini

(also drunk)
This. Absolutely.

As a fan of the band since ‘94, I always wished that they finished the Lillywhite Sessions and then ended their career with a pristine reputation and four perfect studio albums.
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Old 04-28-2018, 11:20 PM   #38
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I think production-wise I would have asked about using a Dave overdub in the chorus for harmony in the Dreaming Tree while using Carter everywhere else on the song.

I would generally always pick Carter.
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Old 04-28-2018, 11:33 PM   #39
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Honestly I want to think Steve is the kind of guy who really knows what Dave's lyrics mean, but I think he's too into himself to have ever paid much attention. I think most members of this board know more about the meaning behind Dave's songs than Steve, especially considering they worked together once in the past 18 years and, well, we're fans that've listened to his music hundreds of times over.

Sure, Dreaming Tree is a song about lost innocence, but so are about 50 other songs. And Dave is still singing songs from childlike perspectives even today, so I don't think that song specifically marked the end of that kind of musical spirit for DMB. Childhood and innocence is basically the main theme of Dave's songs for 25 years. But I guess I can take Steve's point as meaning that in the early 90s, the songs came from more of a true childlike spirit, whereas now they come from a man trying to regain that spirit. I buy that.
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Old 04-28-2018, 11:48 PM   #40
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This all just made me more interested in hearing an in-depth interview about AFTW. Would love to hear how he feels about that record now.
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