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Old 12-19-2018, 02:07 PM   #61
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Fantastic post my man. I'm on board with everything you said.

Question though, if Cater's downfall isn't as much to do with age, why do you think he's digressed so much? The last two years specifically.
Well I think Carter's digression has to do with maybe the "less is more" approach but in his case, he's only traded one aspect of playing for another. It's not like he just allowed the pocket of every song to breathe, he's actually traded that space in for heavier approaches and maybe he feels like that needs to happen because he's the engine for a horn section, a loud electric, etc...
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Old 12-19-2018, 02:13 PM   #62
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Well I think Carter's digression has to do with maybe the "less is more" approach but in his case, he's only traded one aspect of playing for another. It's not like he just allowed the pocket of every song to breathe, he's actually traded that space in for heavier approaches and maybe he feels like that needs to happen because he's the engine for a horn section, a loud electric, etc...
Thanks for the input, makes sense. Too bad. I was listening to some '04 stuff lately, and he was just soo smooth back then.
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Old 12-19-2018, 09:41 PM   #63
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During the 2010 tour I had come to face the fact that the horn section dictated how songs were played and how new songs would be arranged. It was sad because even though '09 had it's fair share of thrashing, in 2010 it seemed like the longer Rashawn was left to his own devices, the more influence/control he would have over this band. Even Lillywhite had succumb to that fact with his production for AFTW in 2012, and the arrangements that poured out of those sessions. As the tours went on, '13, '14, '15, '16, it just seemed like it was never going to end. The "wall of sound", heavy instrumentation on songs that don't need it (OSW for example), the horn section continuing to drown other band members out during their solos with canned horn lines, stems and arrangements. Dave having some very obvious vocal issues in 2015 and 2016 (and not just the typical fail of a falsetto but he seemed to almost be singing out of key and tempo on a good number of performances those years), also with each passing year Carter becomes less and less interesting and age has nothing to do with it, it's not about pounding the shit out the drums, it's incorporating all those fills and accents on new arrangements but he's traded that in with just filling the pocket with kick-drums.


The whole Boyd thing happened, some new guy on keys that no one knew, and the news of this new hodge-podge record just seemed like it was almost going to be a nail in the coffin for me, but something glorious happened. The record was nothing like what I had heard and/or seen the last 6/7 years with this band. No over-the-top, horn driven, speed-demon of a song. No "hip-hop" attempts from Batson. No arrangements that got lost under mindless patterns from Carter. Come Tomorrow truly reinvigorated me. For better or worse, the band was playing together instead over each other like they were doing for years during almost every live show since Roi passed. It was so refreshing. I don't care how simplistic of an arrangement or vocal delivery or lyrically some of the songs are. The album and subsequent summer and fall tour had me enjoying the band as a collective (which in includes some of what Rashawn was doing), instead of pin-pointing one solo from one member during an entire show that I liked...this was different.


Rashawn's forced crescendos and builds, squealing, and directing were kept at such a minimal level this year I still have this kind of "it's too good to be true" feeling. Whatever the reasoning, Boyd's absence, the band having fun with Buddy, maybe even Rashawn starting to be a bit more self-aware after all these years...whatever the recipe is for direction things seem to be going, I hope it's something that can be replicated every year from now on. Sure, there are going to be bad shows, bad sets, bad performances, bad experiences at shows and there are still things Rashawn does that really irk me and things I think Buddy can do to improve growing transition into this band's music, but I think the trajectory that they're on right now is one that I totally didn't expect and was a warm welcome from someone who was close to writing them off in terms of future albums, tours, etc...


They've been a changing band, long before Roi's death, and they're still changing and evolving but at least now, I enjoy listening to the band without some anxiety every 2 minutes that my enjoyment will be crushed by decisions musicianship-wise from anyone in the band. Maybe some small let downs, but nothing is totally ruined. Somethings should still change, but for where I thought they were headed...to where we are now, I find myself much happier(more than I have felt in a long time) as a fan moving forward.

I may have a different opinion next year if for example Rashawn starts reverting back to his 2010 approach to every piece of music, an I understand people may not agree with some or most of what I've said here, but as of right now I'm actually more than content with DMB 4.0....I'm happy.
I really enjoy every time you drop one of your long posts, and I agree with this one completely. I even saw, like, the shittiest possible setlist this tour (DC) and I still basically had a great time. Band is doing much better right now that I would have expected at any point in the last decade or so. It's awesome.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:03 PM   #64
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I think Carter just doesn’t practice/play as much as he used to. He’s older, fat and happy and has a family now. He’s not in the hungry mode of needing to prove he’s the best drummer anymore. Where he is now is his bare minimum and it’s still better than 60% of drummers in the world. I bet he only picks up the drums right before a tour and probably barely plays in between—maybe just enough to keep chops at the bare min.

Carters actual sound of his drum set hasn’t been good to me in like over a decade. I think the changes he made to his snare/cymbals over the course of that time have not been good ones. He’ Definitley went for a heavier, ballsier sound than what he was using the in early 00s.

Also yeah his playing style is different too..maybe it’s compensating for the loudness of Tim and Rashawn, but even on the quieter songs he’s not quite as smooth and tasteful. Wish I could pinpoint it but I don’t think age is the main factor. He’s still playing plenty aggressive and fast and using the same amount of energy, but it just doesn’t sound as good—and it doesn’t sound very “carterish”
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:07 PM   #65
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It feels to me like it's the songs that he's played 1000 times where he's losing his touch, but he's quite tasteful and his usual intricate self on newer / rarer material. Like his work on Bismarck was amazing, and the drumming on the 2013 Crazy Easy warm up video is sublime. But, like, Ants Marching is all noise, for instance.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:11 PM   #66
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It feels to me like it's the songs that he's played 1000 times where he's losing his touch, but he's quite tasteful and his usual intricate self on newer / rarer material. Like his work on Bismarck was amazing, and the drumming on the 2013 Crazy Easy warm up video is sublime. But, like, Ants Marching is all noise, for instance.
Could be the case. I just know Carter is the main reason I got into this band and started following them, and he’s all I would pay attention to at shows and think “damn he sounds amazing. Every single drum hit sounds crisp and awesome.” I don’t feel that way at all anymore, I barely pay attention to him at shows and almost forget he’s there. Maybe it’s just me getting older or just being used to him, but it’s definitely different.
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:16 PM   #67
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I mean do you blame the guy if he is like man I have to play ants again for the 2000tb time or whatever
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:30 PM   #68
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Regarding the Carter talk, I somewhat completely agree.

I've been watching 2002-2003 videos a lot lately and really miss that drum setup and sound. Everything was more full sounding, open, the sound that got me to buy a recording custom drumset, and inspired me to build and keep up with the replica kit. All his tasty drumming with the splashes, the build up to the china's, the extra timbale hits thrown in, and just the old cymbal selection all together. I went so far a few weeks ago to set the old kit up with the old placement and cymbals. It was a breath of fresh air from the current rock kit and sound he has.

His kit sounds incredible now, but it's not the same kit that drew me in to his sound at all. His over use of the China cymbal has really made him lose 90% of his dynamics he used to have. He then asked Henry to add him more splashes for 2016. They took his smallest crash out and replaced it with another stack of Zildjians smallest splashes. What's crazy? He hardly EVER touches them and you can't hear them over Tim and the horns anyway if he does. I don't get that at all.

To be honest, it seems his older kit would almost fit better now than the current one with some of the cymbal choices. I've went back to the current kit myself and I still love it, but nothing will touch that old setup and sound.

I sent a picture of it to Henry the other day and he replied saying that it really took him back to the old days. Bring the China stack back!!

As for his playing, it's still crazy, but he's completely either not playing or skipping signature parts of songs. Small things that made some of the old songs so good drumming wise have been simplified to a basic beat. And his playing has gotten much quieter. His sticks used to fly over his head. Now they stay fairly low. I think his age is catching up to him to a degree. His kit is getting lower and lower, with stuff being put in easier reach. He's still my favorite drummer and always will be, but I'm truly a Henry fan lol. He's a genius behind that kit.
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:53 PM   #69
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I also think Carter only picks up sticks now before or during a tour as said above. He does absolutely nothing with the drumming community x, hardly any ads, no clinics ever as far as I know. He truly hates the spotlight it seems. Yamaha couldn't even get him a signature snare drum made when they tried.

He rarely even knows what gear he's using. I believe he shows up and plays what Henry has up there, and will ask for a change if he wants it.

Someone told me a reputable, high profile Yamaha artist tried to get a meet and greet with Carter and he politely declined. Amazing lol
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Old 12-20-2018, 07:12 AM   #70
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At least Rylee Walker got to meet him.
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Old 12-20-2018, 09:14 AM   #71
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Carter's kit sounded very digital to me this tour. Of course, I saw two shows at the Northerly Island dump.

Two Step at Deer Creek was an absolute all timer. He was ridiculous on that version, brought the house down.
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Old 12-20-2018, 09:16 AM   #72
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I mean just listen to #36 from Red Rocks '95 or Halloween from '95 and then listen to him now. totally different style of drumming.
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Old 12-20-2018, 09:23 AM   #73
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Dave Matthews Band 4.0

I suppose the suppression of Jeff could be considered a “Nail in the Coffin.”

Anyhow, totally agreed on Carter. Dude needs to take a hard look down memory lane and remember dynamics, lose the left china, and recall the wonderful and subtle decorations that made him Carter Beauford. If he’s trying to be a metal drummer, he should leave that to Matt Halpern, Matt Garstka, and arguably Isaac Teel. I so miss the 02-03 kit and the drummer it brought out in Beauford.
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Old 12-20-2018, 10:17 AM   #74
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I suppose the suppression of Jeff could be considered a “Nail in the Coffin.”
nice.

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Anyhow, totally agreed on Carter. Dude needs to take a hard look down memory lane and remember dynamics, lose the left china, and recall the wonderful and subtle decorations that made him Carter Beauford. If he’s trying to be a metal drummer, he should leave that to Matt Halpern, Matt Garstka, and arguably Isaac Teel. I so miss the 02-03 kit and the drummer it brought out in Beauford.
Agree. As a drummer in middle school, I latched onto this band with a fury because of his style. People get older, they change, but the way he has been playing over the years is heartbreaking.
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Old 12-20-2018, 11:14 AM   #75
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During the 2010 tour I had come to face the fact that the horn section dictated how songs were played and how new songs would be arranged. It was sad because even though '09 had it's fair share of thrashing, in 2010 it seemed like the longer Rashawn was left to his own devices, the more influence/control he would have over this band. Even Lillywhite had succumb to that fact with his production for AFTW in 2012, and the arrangements that poured out of those sessions. As the tours went on, '13, '14, '15, '16, it just seemed like it was never going to end. The "wall of sound", heavy instrumentation on songs that don't need it (OSW for example), the horn section continuing to drown other band members out during their solos with canned horn lines, stems and arrangements. Dave having some very obvious vocal issues in 2015 and 2016 (and not just the typical fail of a falsetto but he seemed to almost be singing out of key and tempo on a good number of performances those years), also with each passing year Carter becomes less and less interesting and age has nothing to do with it, it's not about pounding the shit out the drums, it's incorporating all those fills and accents on new arrangements but he's traded that in with just filling the pocket with kick-drums.


The whole Boyd thing happened, some new guy on keys that no one knew, and the news of this new hodge-podge record just seemed like it was almost going to be a nail in the coffin for me, but something glorious happened. The record was nothing like what I had heard and/or seen the last 6/7 years with this band. No over-the-top, horn driven, speed-demon of a song. No "hip-hop" attempts from Batson. No arrangements that got lost under mindless patterns from Carter. Come Tomorrow truly reinvigorated me. For better or worse, the band was playing together instead over each other like they were doing for years during almost every live show since Roi passed. It was so refreshing. I don't care how simplistic of an arrangement or vocal delivery or lyrically some of the songs are. The album and subsequent summer and fall tour had me enjoying the band as a collective (which in includes some of what Rashawn was doing), instead of pin-pointing one solo from one member during an entire show that I liked...this was different.


Rashawn's forced crescendos and builds, squealing, and directing were kept at such a minimal level this year I still have this kind of "it's too good to be true" feeling. Whatever the reasoning, Boyd's absence, the band having fun with Buddy, maybe even Rashawn starting to be a bit more self-aware after all these years...whatever the recipe is for direction things seem to be going, I hope it's something that can be replicated every year from now on. Sure, there are going to be bad shows, bad sets, bad performances, bad experiences at shows and there are still things Rashawn does that really irk me and things I think Buddy can do to improve growing transition into this band's music, but I think the trajectory that they're on right now is one that I totally didn't expect and was a warm welcome from someone who was close to writing them off in terms of future albums, tours, etc...


They've been a changing band, long before Roi's death, and they're still changing and evolving but at least now, I enjoy listening to the band without some anxiety every 2 minutes that my enjoyment will be crushed by decisions musicianship-wise from anyone in the band. Maybe some small let downs, but nothing is totally ruined. Somethings should still change, but for where I thought they were headed...to where we are now, I find myself much happier(more than I have felt in a long time) as a fan moving forward.

I may have a different opinion next year if for example Rashawn starts reverting back to his 2010 approach to every piece of music, an I understand people may not agree with some or most of what I've said here, but as of right now I'm actually more than content with DMB 4.0....I'm happy.
Awesome post. i agree 100%. i guess the only thing that i have an issue with is at this point (which has been said a million times) is the variety. The way i look at it is the summer was new for buddy so a lot of songs got repeated and played to the ground (especially the stand up songs). When the Columbus show happened i was ecstatic. The band sounded good at the set list was so unexpected. MSG was blast. BUt then right back to the same old. Someone said it best on here... This band is in a good place and sound great. But its not worth traveling (more than an Hour) for if they dont vary the setlist. I hope that next year the really open the catalog with having become comfortable with buddy. #optimistic
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Old 12-20-2018, 11:41 AM   #76
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Awesome post. i agree 100%. i guess the only thing that i have an issue with is at this point (which has been said a million times) is the variety. The way i look at it is the summer was new for buddy so a lot of songs got repeated and played to the ground (especially the stand up songs). When the Columbus show happened i was ecstatic. The band sounded good at the set list was so unexpected. MSG was blast. BUt then right back to the same old. Someone said it best on here... This band is in a good place and sound great. But its not worth traveling (more than an Hour) for if they dont vary the setlist. I hope that next year the really open the catalog with having become comfortable with buddy. #optimistic
Are we 100% sure there will be a 2019 summer tour?
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Old 12-20-2018, 11:50 AM   #77
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Are we 100% sure there will be a 2019 summer tour?
I mean there is a Europe tour and i heard a million rumors. So yes there will be. I will be shocked if not.
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Old 12-20-2018, 11:54 AM   #78
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There will be a 19 summer tour.

The years they haven't toured they gave everyone a heads up beforehand to help boost ticket sales.

Unless there's a major setback (illness or something), they'll hit the sheds in 19.
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Old 12-20-2018, 11:55 AM   #79
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Already hearing Woodlands/Dallas is May 17th and 18th
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Old 12-20-2018, 12:17 PM   #80
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Already hearing Woodlands/Dallas is May 17th and 18th
That just makes sense.
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