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Old 08-26-2020, 11:40 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by cgator41 View Post
Butch was boring as hell.

And man, I know the fanbase is getting older, but some of the opinions on here baffle me.

To get any praise on this board, you have to be mellow and subtle. Anyone making a sound that is loud or has any edge to it whatsoever is criticized (Rashawn playing a screaming trumpet solo, Jeff with a busy sax run, Buddy playing organ, Tim shredding, etc.)

Maybe a fucking Jack Johnson show would be a better choice.
Butch jamming with Carter on Two Step, or Seek Up jam was anything but boring. Butch fills on Warehouse and Rapunzel were amazing.

Dmb needs space to breathe, not loud sounds all jumbled together. Tim being so cranked so loud you canít even hear Daveís guitar isnít good. Itís a total unnecessary distraction. Rashawns notes are bad and a totally unnecessary element to the sound as well. Plus the canned horns are terrible too. This is what we call the wall of sound. DMB wasnít built on a rock sound. They were built on an acoustic driven sound that was super powerful and pretty unique. That doesnít mean everyone play as loud as you can. The less is more approach is way better suited for dmb.

Go listen to some 1995-2004 era and come back.
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Old 08-26-2020, 11:44 AM   #382
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Also I can still clearly remember a time when people were so happy that Butch was gone. Maybe a lot of those people have left but to see now that people lament Butch leaving as the beginning of the end is quite the irony to me.
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Old 08-26-2020, 11:46 AM   #383
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Yeah for some reason there's this fixation on the boards (not just TDC) with this narrow period in DMB history (2000 to 2004) that doesn't really represent what made the band popular or all that unique in the first place. For as much love as there is for the mid 90's (which is the period I would say the band was at their absolute peak) even it is way overshadowed by the love for the early 2000s. Which I kind of get because I can only assume that's when most around here were beginning to see shows for the first time. I like that period too but I don't know if I would use that sound as the definitive version of what the whole DMB thing is about.
I would venture to say that the majority here listen to 90s dmb not just early 2000s dmb. 95-99 is great too. Hell 1992-1994 is great too, they were just pretty raw.
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Old 08-26-2020, 11:53 AM   #384
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Go listen to some 1995-2004 era and come back.
I've listened to a ton of stuff from every era of the band (went to my first show in '96).

And even though they've changed a lot over the years, I don't yearn for the old days at all.

I understand I'm in the minority, but I love their current lineup and right now would rather listen to stuff from the last two years over an old show.
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Old 08-26-2020, 11:56 AM   #385
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Butch jamming with Carter on Two Step, or Seek Up jam was anything but boring.
Ugh. Put me to sleep.
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:14 PM   #386
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Butch jamming with Carter on Two Step, or Seek Up jam was anything but boring. Butch fills on Warehouse and Rapunzel were amazing.
I mean this is nothing but the truth. My favourite era of the band by a mile. Those Two Steps, Seek Ups. Loving Wings, Rapunzel, and Warehouse jams were nothing short of some of the best music I've ever heard. And it was Butch and Carter together that produced it. Just fantastic stuff night in, night out back then.
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:16 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by DIDO36 View Post
I would venture to say that the majority here listen to 90s dmb not just early 2000s dmb. 95-99 is great too. Hell 1992-1994 is great too, they were just pretty raw.
'91-'93 is just too grating, to me, to listen to frequently. '94-'04 is my wheelhouse, but nostalgia is at it's peak for me with '99-'02, as that was when I was really into DMB.
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:20 PM   #388
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'91-'93 is just too grating, to me, to listen to frequently. '94-'04 is my wheelhouse, but nostalgia is at it's peak for me with '99-'02, as that was when I was really into DMB.
Agreed. I'll stretch it and say '98-2004.
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Old 08-26-2020, 02:43 PM   #389
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The argument with what era of DMB will always be unwinnable. It's completely subjective, and at this point, the band has been around for nearly thirty years. The common thread that brought us all together in 2000 was essentially the same DMB - the 1994-2000 group that was essentially the same for six years, with Butch being added sporadically. Now, there are many different eras in which fans found their love for the band, and each era's fanbase generally gravitates to that initial sound that hooked them. It's natural for us to now have vastly differing opinions on what era of sound is the best from the band.

I happen to think that the majority of people here who post semi-regularly are from the 95-2004 era, and because of that, we gravitate to the sound that not only originated then but also morphed into what DMB was when the Sugar Will batch of songs came out. I happen to be of that group, and I naturally gravitate to the sonic landscape that they presented at that time.

What I don't have is an aversion to loudness or rawness. The band was extremely raw at times, and there was plenty of volume. But what made the band great was that there was a small and rhythmic core - Dave, Carter and Stefan - which formed an adaptable foundation for solo instruments to weave in and out of. The sound wasn't so much mellow as it was nuanced, complex and melodic. Songs like The Best of What's Around date back to the band's genesis, and the majority of the song only consistently involved that rhythmic core.

Today, the band - for better or for worse - has added so many ingredients that the foundation has become lost in a mess of meandering musicianship. Dave, at times, sometimes doesn't even play his guitar, or at most dumbs down his intricate style to something that most of us here could fake easily. Tim is a fantastic musician and his work with Dave in a duo setting is fun, quirky and beautiful. But his additions have slowly provided both a crutch for Dave's lack of playing, and an overbearing solo instrument that turns DMB into a well-rehearsed charactirue of itself. One of the initial allures of the Dave Matthews Band was that it was able to be a kickass rock band without the reliance on an electric guitar to give it punch, edge and volume.

As members have been added, there is less space for the music to breathe. My problem with the new iteration of DMB isn't that it's not 94-04 reincarnated, it's that the band has gone away from what it was when I fell in love in with it.


Butch always seemed to mesh seemlessly with the original five, and never felt overbearing. Sometimes his solos took too long of a center stage, and brought down the energy...but somehow he seemed to be an extension of the band, not an addition.

I'm not well versed with Buddy as I don't listen to much of the modern day group - for many of the above reasons - but I'm still interested in the band and their evolution. Change isn't either good or bad to me and my fandom, but I think it's undeniable that the modern Dave Matthews Band isn't based on the same thing that the current one is.
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Old 08-26-2020, 02:59 PM   #390
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The argument with what era of DMB will always be unwinnable. It's completely subjective, and at this point, the band has been around for nearly thirty years. The common thread that brought us all together in 2000 was essentially the same DMB - the 1994-2000 group that was essentially the same for six years, with Butch being added sporadically. Now, there are many different eras in which fans found their love for the band, and each era's fanbase generally gravitates to that initial sound that hooked them. It's natural for us to now have vastly differing opinions on what era of sound is the best from the band.

I happen to think that the majority of people here who post semi-regularly are from the 95-2004 era, and because of that, we gravitate to the sound that not only originated then but also morphed into what DMB was when the Sugar Will batch of songs came out. I happen to be of that group, and I naturally gravitate to the sonic landscape that they presented at that time.

What I don't have is an aversion to loudness or rawness. The band was extremely raw at times, and there was plenty of volume. But what made the band great was that there was a small and rhythmic core - Dave, Carter and Stefan - which formed an adaptable foundation for solo instruments to weave in and out of. The sound wasn't so much mellow as it was nuanced, complex and melodic. Songs like The Best of What's Around date back to the band's genesis, and the majority of the song only consistently involved that rhythmic core.

Today, the band - for better or for worse - has added so many ingredients that the foundation has become lost in a mess of meandering musicianship. Dave, at times, sometimes doesn't even play his guitar, or at most dumbs down his intricate style to something that most of us here could fake easily. Tim is a fantastic musician and his work with Dave in a duo setting is fun, quirky and beautiful. But his additions have slowly provided both a crutch for Dave's lack of playing, and an overbearing solo instrument that turns DMB into a well-rehearsed charactirue of itself. One of the initial allures of the Dave Matthews Band was that it was able to be a kickass rock band without the reliance on an electric guitar to give it punch, edge and volume.

As members have been added, there is less space for the music to breathe. My problem with the new iteration of DMB isn't that it's not 94-04 reincarnated, it's that the band has gone away from what it was when I fell in love in with it.


Butch always seemed to mesh seemlessly with the original five, and never felt overbearing. Sometimes his solos took too long of a center stage, and brought down the energy...but somehow he seemed to be an extension of the band, not an addition.

I'm not well versed with Buddy as I don't listen to much of the modern day group - for many of the above reasons - but I'm still interested in the band and their evolution. Change isn't either good or bad to me and my fandom, but I think it's undeniable that the modern Dave Matthews Band isn't based on the same thing that the current one is.
Can't say I could add anything more. Agree full heartedly.
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Old 08-26-2020, 03:38 PM   #391
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Suffice to say, it's the Dave Matthews Cover Band these days more than anything else.
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Old 08-26-2020, 04:21 PM   #392
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Today, the band - for better or for worse - has added so many ingredients that the foundation has become lost in a mess of meandering musicianship. Dave, at times, sometimes doesn't even play his guitar, or at most dumbs down his intricate style to something that most of us here could fake easily. Tim is a fantastic musician and his work with Dave in a duo setting is fun, quirky and beautiful. But his additions have slowly provided both a crutch for Dave's lack of playing, and an overbearing solo instrument that turns DMB into a well-rehearsed charactirue of itself. One of the initial allures of the Dave Matthews Band was that it was able to be a kickass rock band without the reliance on an electric guitar to give it punch, edge and volume.
This was said perfect. This is 100% the truth right there and really explains a lot. They used to sound unique, most of that was lack of electric guitar and having both a violin and a sax together. All of that is gone, and now they sound like a rock band--electric guitar, horn section, keys. The sound isn't a unique blend. It's the same great songs, but with a super generic take on them.
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Old 08-26-2020, 04:24 PM   #393
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Old 08-26-2020, 08:34 PM   #394
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Agreed. I'll stretch it and say '98-2004.
absolutely my glory days when it's all said and done
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Old 08-26-2020, 08:55 PM   #395
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Soups is 100% on point.

I feel like all of the lineup changes forced the band to become a caricature of themselves. Getting people up to speed and comfortable, making sure everyone gets solo time etc. Theres now seven guys on stage as opposed to the original five and sometimes there is too much noise, like not every person needs to be present on every second of every song. And sometimes Tim needs to either not play or play an acoustic.
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Old 08-30-2020, 07:17 PM   #396
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Look I love that period too but how could you say that it was that mellow laid back sound that made them popular and defined their sound vs the youthful fire and energy that they had in the 90s on albums like UTTAD and Crash.
The 90's were when DMB was at their best, no doubt. I don't think it's an unpopular opinion. I understand why people love the early noughties (00-04) as well though. The band didn't have the reckless hunger of the prior decade, but their sound was very refined and mature during that time period as well.
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