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View Poll Results: Do you think the LWS could have been DMB's best album if it was finished properly with Lillywhite?
Yes, it could have been the best 72 52.94%
No, it still probably wouldn't have been the best 44 32.35%
Who's to say? I dunno. 20 14.71%
Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-29-2010, 11:37 PM   #1
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Do you think the LWS could have been DMB's best album?

Gonna add a poll.
Basically after really taking into account how "embarrassed" Steve was about it leaking unfinished, and knowing full well how great the LWS and BS are, I seriously believe had the band finished the LWS with Lillywhite, the record could have topped BTCS.

What do you think?

By the way, even though Busted Stuff isn't their BEST album, it still might actually be my favorite since it got me into the band and I personally think it's severely overlooked because so many DMB fans got attached to the LWS in advance (which is also great, but a few tracks are certainly very unfinished, like Grey Street and Raven).

As far as songs go, overall I'd say at their BEST, Big Eyed Fish, Bartender, Grey Street, Grace is Gone, and JTR are up there with the best BTCS has to offer, with Captain and Raven not far behind at all.
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:43 PM   #2
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i wouldn't take what steve said as a sign that it was shaping up to be their best record. they obviously would have promoted it as such like they do with every album they put out, but him being embarrassed it was leaked i think was just because it wasn't even close to being done and had a lot of ideas that were only half fleshed out. anyone would be pissed about any set of songs coming out like that, regardless of how good they were shaping up to be.

but to answer your question simply, no i don't think it would have been their best. i just don't think those set of songs stack up to Crash or BTCS.
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:47 PM   #3
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I voted yes, it could have just beat out BTCS if it was finished with Lilywhite. As it is, it's still my second favorite album of the studio albums.
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:55 PM   #4
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Yeah, I mean I guess you have to definite LIKE the songs themselves in essence close to or more than their previous songs, but generally that does apply for me.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:14 AM   #5
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Yeah, I mean I guess you have to definite LIKE the songs themselves in essence close to or more than their previous songs, but generally that does apply for me.
yeah. i mean it's not like i don't like the songs. grey street (regardless of how fucked out it may or may not be now), bartender, and that original captain are some of their best stuff. but i'm not too hot on grace is gone, diggin' a ditch, and monkey man and i don't see a whole lot they would have done with those to make them great. so it would have been good but there still would have been at least 3 songs on the thing that i'm not really nuts over and i can't say that about the other big 3 albums.

i think it's taken on this mythic quality with the circumstances that surrounded everything that happened those two years of '00/'01 that overshadow how good it actually would have ended up being if they just finished it as planned.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:19 AM   #6
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Grace is Gone, IMO, is one of DMB's best songs ever. The fact that it works so brilliantly, yet in totally different tones, on both LWS and BS while sounding completely different in both versions speaks volumes of the song itself.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:22 AM   #7
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I think the LWS as a finished product would not have been "as good" as what we have. To me, the entire appeal of this album is its ruggedness, it's raw emotion, and ultimately, its lack of completion. I am glad it was never finished (that is not to say I'm glad about what followed...) as a believe we would never witness such honesty on a completed studio record as we do in those unfinished tracks. Would it have been up there with BTCS? You could argue yes and I couldn't outwardly disagree, becuase who the hell knows? No denying the potential was there. But I think we all obsess over this because it's the most honest off-stage insight to the bad we've ever been given.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:25 AM   #8
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I think the LWS as a finished product would not have been "as good" as what we have. To me, the entire appeal of this album is its ruggedness, it's raw emotion, and ultimately, its lack of completion. I am glad it was never finished (that is not to say I'm glad about what followed...) as a believe we would never witness such honesty on a completed studio record as we do in those unfinished tracks. Would it have been up there with BTCS? You could argue yes and I couldn't outwardly disagree, becuase who the hell knows? No denying the potential was there. But I think we all obsess over this because it's the most honest off-stage insight to the bad we've ever been given.
i think the roughness works really well for the songs that were basically done from a purely songwriting basis. but stuff like Raven and Monkey Man are just too rough and incomplete that they're not enjoyable.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:26 AM   #9
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Grace is Gone, IMO, is one of DMB's best songs ever. The fact that it works so brilliantly, yet in totally different tones, on both LWS and BS while sounding completely different in both versions speaks volumes of the song itself.
it's a fine little country song, but i just don't like it very much.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:32 AM   #10
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As much as I like Big Whiskey, when you look at the raw emotion in the LWS version of Grace is Gone and put it up against FTWII or even Baby Blue, it's not even close. Well, I guess Baby Blue kinda comes close, but there is such a haunting honest beauty to the LWS Grace is Gone. I love it, as do I the Busted Stuff version, which took it to a great laid back reflective summer tune by its own right.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:33 AM   #11
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i think the roughness works really well for the songs that were basically done from a purely songwriting basis. but stuff like Raven and Monkey Man are just too rough and incomplete that they're not enjoyable.
I think that can be true of Kit Kat and Raven, definitely. The lack of lyrics really detracts. The incompleteness of the rest of the album, though, only adds to its appeal for me. I think the way we regard this album is completely blinded by virtue of the fact that there's nothing else like it. A finished product suddenly becomes comparable to the one's before and the one's after. This will stand alone forever because of what it reveals of the band, what it is as snapshot in time, and what it isn't as album.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:35 AM   #12
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As much as I like Big Whiskey, when you look at the raw emotion in the LWS version of Grace is Gone and put it up against FTWII or even Baby Blue, it's not even close. Well, I guess Baby Blue kinda comes close, but there is such a haunting honest beauty to the LWS Grace is Gone. I love it, as do I the Busted Stuff version, which took it to a great laid back reflective summer tune by its own right.
why would you compare the "raw emotion" in grace is gone to something like Funny? that just doesn't make any sense. and i've long ago given up on dave being able to channel his deep feelings into a song and not finding a way to cheese it the fuck up.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:35 AM   #13
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I think that can be true of Kit Kat and Raven, definitely. The lack of lyrics really detracts. The incompleteness of the rest of the album, though, only adds to its appeal for me. I think the way we regard this album is completely blinded by virtue of the fact that there's nothing else like it. A finished product suddenly becomes comparable to the one's before and the one's after. This will stand alone forever because of what it reveals of the band, what it is as snapshot in time, and what it isn't as album.
I dunno. When I look at the style of the LWS, it may be rough and unfinished, but given some polish and whatnot, it kind of reminds of Pig, Dreaming Tree, Crush and Spoon off BTCS. I imagine the LWS would have turned out as gorgeous as the second half of BTCS. And to be honest, the second half of BTCS is what really makes the album shine.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:37 AM   #14
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I think that can be true of Kit Kat and Raven, definitely. The lack of lyrics really detracts. The incompleteness of the rest of the album, though, only adds to its appeal for me. I think the way we regard this album is completely blinded by virtue of the fact that there's nothing else like it. A finished product suddenly becomes comparable to the one's before and the one's after. This will stand alone forever because of what it reveals of the band, what it is as snapshot in time, and what it isn't as album.
i agree for the most part, but plenty of artists and bands have unfinished albums and studio sessions that are out there and are arguably better than the LWS and yet they don't have near the larger than life stigma around them. Whiskeytown/Ryan Adams comes to mind.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:38 AM   #15
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why would you compare the "raw emotion" in grace is gone to something like Funny? that just doesn't make any sense. and i've long ago given up on dave being able to channel his deep feelings into a song and not finding a way to cheese it the fuck up.
Funny strikes me as an example of Dave trying to sound reflective and pretty much failing. I've always struggled back and forth with the song, and ultimately I think I have to settle on the song as having teenage-level lyrics with pretty good music. Grace is Gone is another single from the 2000s which has some contemplative lyrics, and says less while evoking more than a song like Funny. I guess that's why it came to mind. Obviously at the moment when listening to some great old DMB hits, the state of the band currently will come to mind.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:38 AM   #16
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i just don't think they will ever top crowded streets and that's saying a lot more about how good it is than it is about what the band is capable of right now or was capable of doing with the LWS.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:42 AM   #17
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Funny strikes me as an example of Dave trying to sound reflective and pretty much failing. I've always struggled back and forth with the song, and ultimately I think I have to settle on the song as having teenage-level lyrics with pretty good music. Grace is Gone is another single from the 2000s which has some contemplative lyrics, and says less while evoking more than a song like Funny. I guess that's why it came to mind. Obviously at the moment when listening to some great old DMB hits, the state of the band currently will come to mind.
but he's still trying to do something completely different with the songs. yes they're both contemplative, but grace is gone (while still vague) was clearly something very personal. Funny doesn't strike me as something he was trying to make emotional, i think he just wanted to write a breezy pop tune with some basic "look how we've fucked everything up" lyrics and it succeeds at that.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:44 AM   #18
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i agree for the most part, but plenty of artists and bands have unfinished albums and studio sessions that are out there and are arguably better than the LWS and yet they don't have near the larger than life stigma around them. Whiskeytown/Ryan Adams comes to mind.
Yea, I really can't answer that very well. I guess my best response is to say it's likely those bands you speak of haven't failed and time and time again in the studio, scrapping gold material for inferior crap. DMB's LWS honesty isn't just an isolated event, it's retrospectively so considering the mistakes we've seen since Everyday.

And so to bed...
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:48 AM   #19
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Yea, I really can't answer that very well. I guess my best response is to say it's likely those bands you speak of haven't failed and time and time again in the studio, scrapping gold material for inferior crap. DMB's LWS honesty isn't just an isolated event, it's retrospectively so considering the mistakes we've seen since Everyday.

And so to bed...
well ryan adams basically fell apart as a songwriter the last 5 or 6 years and has lost a lot of good will he built up to that point.

the thing is, you're saying exactly what i am. LWS is so highly regarded because of the circumstances. that's not a fair way to objectively look at the "album". stripping all that bullshit away and just looking at it as a set of 11 (or is it 12?) songs... i don't think it's as good as everyone makes it out to be. my point is, the myth of the album is greater than the actual content.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:58 AM   #20
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but he's still trying to do something completely different with the songs. yes they're both contemplative, but grace is gone (while still vague) was clearly something very personal. Funny doesn't strike me as something he was trying to make emotional, i think he just wanted to write a breezy pop tune with some basic "look how we've fucked everything up" lyrics and it succeeds at that.
I dunno, I almost don't even care to defend the opinion anymore, but to me, Grace is Gone sounds like honest music with honest lyrics. Digging a Ditch does too. So does Bartender, Busted Stuff, Grey Street, Raven, and Big Eyed Fish. Hell, honestly LITHOG and Seven sound like honest music with honest lyrics too (just to make sure you know I'm not against newer DMB). Funny just doesn't, and that's why I don't hold it to the same regard. But this isn't the place to talk about Funny. The point is that the LWS/Busted Stuff, to me, has the best (or tied with the best) collection of HONEST songs - honest lyrics and honest musicianship, coming from the heart, even if the heart was producing darkness.
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