Exxon (oil market), Climate Change, Tesla

[ggies]

I thought I would create a new thread for this important topic, as this 5 part article needs to be spread so people can understand what's going on in the world.

I also am posting on this topic, as it reflects what Dave has sang about since the beginning of his career - Mother Earth.

OSW -

"If green should slip to grey
Would our hearts still bloody beat
If the mountains crumble away
and the river dry
Would it stop the stepping feet"

AND

Monkey Man -

"I could weave a fairy tale
of great bible-thumping scale
when he stands empty hands on his empty land
that's what happened here great great monkey man

where did you think grey was the color of bliss
you think i don't know quite what to say
but i'm worried for myself in this "

Joyride -

"The money is clean
Cause we scrub it good
With guns and gasoline
We're gonna save the world
Nothing's obscene if we only close our eyes
Boys and girls welcome to this joyride "

Dive In -

"Wake up sleepy head I think the sun's a little brighter today
Smile and watch the icicles melt away and see the waters rising
Summer's here to stay and all those summer games will last forever
Go down to the shore kick off your shoes dive in the empty ocean"


So here is the rub - Exxon has known what adding CO2 to the atmosphere would do to the Earth and they have been covering it up. These findings in the article were taken from internal memos within the company.

[Only registered users can see links.]

There is no more denying Climate Change is made up and if you were on the fence about it, you can now be rest assured we must do something for future generations.

[gweeps]

Sadly, we consumers are in a lethal codependent relationship with these multinationals.

[Bluewater34]

While true, that doesn't excuse Exxon plainly misleading the public for their own profit. I hope the DOJ gets an investigation going into this very soon.

[ggies]

Originally Posted by gweeps Sadly, we consumers are in a lethal codependent relationship with these multinationals.

But we don't have to be anymore....solar, EVs, and battery storage are now here for our civilization to transition to. It would be sad if our species does not take the best route for future generations.

Originally Posted by Bluewater34 While true, that doesn't excuse Exxon plainly misleading the public for their own profit. I hope the DOJ gets an investigation going into this very soon.

Yep, two congressmen are already calling for one.

We could have been deep into solar and EV technology already if it weren't for these types of situations.

I suggest the book, [Only registered users can see links.] , as a place to start to see how things have been manipulated in the the transportation sector.

[gweeps]

I'm not apathetic, I simply realize that concern and action seem to usually be two ideas living on completely different planets. If those other ways of powering everything were as profitable, they would be used more. On a related note, I heard that Tesla coils are much cleaner and more powerful than the type of electricity generation we use today. And what about Walmart? Another "Daddy knows best" type of thing.

My country sells oil particulates to the U.S., which is then sold back to us after refinement. What about this huge Trans-Pacific deal? One thing I read was that we may be getting hormone-laced milk eventually. Canada has banned the usage but the States hasn't. Yet the deal may allow U.S. imports with the hormone in to Canada. Make sense?

[Caveat Emperor]

The guy who shills for Tesla starts a thread shitting all over an oil company?

Well knock me over with a fucking feather.

[ggies]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor The guy who shills for Tesla starts a thread shitting all over an oil company? Well knock me over with a fucking feather.

Full disclosure: my grandfather worked for mobil and then exxon as the regional manager for the southern states. This is a very personal thing to me and its hard to talk to some of my family. But i didn't create this report and im not going to hide my head in the sand as to what's happening to our planet. Im simply spreading the report so that others may understand whats happening.

But thanks for personally attacking me.

[MaLaKaS]

Yea my coworkers were discussing this Exxon topic at work this past week. It's pretty sick how we will kill ourselves for more money.

[ggies]

Originally Posted by MaLaKaS Yea my coworkers were discussing this Exxon topic at work this past week. It's pretty sick how we will kill ourselves for more money.

Yes. This is not something we can just clean up and start over, this will effect generations to come. We as a species are so short-sided, looking at only next quarter profits......and just to added to those that love futuristic movies - we can never get there if we are stuck on a type of energy that we dig from the ground.

More on the investigations:

[Only registered users can see links.]

[Only registered users can see links.]

Edit: Just to give some background on why I'm so into sustainable energy - my daughter. Before she was born, I really didn't think about what was going on with our planet, but something changed when she came along.......I guess it was that parental instinct that sets in. She is 5 now and it makes me angry and sad that people who will be dead by the time she is an adult have changed our planet for profit.

From the tech side - we will move away from fossil fuels whether people like it or not. EVs are easier to build and maintain, and they drive better as well. Technology always wins. Examples - Horse to car / typewriter to computer / radio to tv/ land phone to cell phone / cell phone to smart phone

And now it's ICE to EV / coal and natural gas to Solar and Wind + battery storage

[ggies]

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by ggies From the tech side - we will move away from fossil fuels whether people like it or not. EVs are easier to build and maintain, and they drive better as well. Technology always wins. Examples - Horse to car / typewriter to computer / radio to tv/ land phone to cell phone / cell phone to smart phone And now it's ICE to EV / coal and natural gas to Solar and Wind + battery storage

We'll move away from fossil fuels as soon as people can do so without sacrificing financially or in terms of lifestyle. Right now that isn't the case -- EVs are more expensive and do less than fossil fuel / ICE cars. The minute that isn't the case, the switchover will be near instantaneous.

[ggies]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor We'll move away from fossil fuels as soon as people can do so without sacrificing financially or in terms of lifestyle. Right now that isn't the case -- EVs are more expensive and do less than fossil fuel / ICE cars. The minute that isn't the case, the switchover will be near instantaneous.

Right, I didn't say anything about the amount of time that it will take, which is several decades. The point is, we could have been farther along now than we are......It will only look instantaneously because of the all the people who bought the product when it was more expensive. I'll show this again:



Every example I gave went under this curve. The early adopters will always pay more than the early majority.

[Tambourine Man]

Originally Posted by gweeps I'm not apathetic, I simply realize that concern and action seem to usually be two ideas living on completely different planets. If those other ways of powering everything were as profitable, they would be used more. On a related note, I heard that Tesla coils are much cleaner and more powerful than the type of electricity generation we use today. And what about Walmart? Another "Daddy knows best" type of thing. My country sells oil particulates to the U.S., which is then sold back to us after refinement. What about this huge Trans-Pacific deal? One thing I read was that we may be getting hormone-laced milk eventually. Canada has banned the usage but the States hasn't. Yet the deal may allow U.S. imports with the hormone in to Canada. Make sense?

The transpacific partnership TPP is just awful. It's being sold to the American people as "good for the middle class" but in reality it has lots of hidden nasties and is another way for our politicians to enrich themselves through the lobbyists.

I honestly wouldn't even drink milk. The healthiest form - raw milk - is illegal in some states and difficult to buy in others.

Anyway I agree with this topic, but it has to come naturally from the market. There are a lot of bright tech companies investing tremendous resources in this, I'm optimistic.

[drummerkrf]

Obama Administration just rejected the Keystone XL

[Bluewater34]

And the New York Attorney General is investigating Exxon Mobil with an eye on RICO charges. Awesome.

[ggies]

Originally Posted by drummerkrf Obama Administration just rejected the Keystone XL

Originally Posted by Bluewater34 And the New York Attorney General is investigating Exxon Mobil with an eye on RICO charges. Awesome.

Yesir! Posted these awhile ago on my other boards.

[ggies]

This clip from the new Racing Extinction documentary visualizes the CO2 that comes out of our dirty cars, planes, and plants. Imagine if we saw this all the time.....it would make us want to transition to renewable energy a lot quicker than we are.....

[ggies]

Again, for those "on the fence" that read this thread. Another article on internal memos from Exxon:

[Only registered users can see links.]

One of the internal memos:

Shaw based his caution on estimates that higher global temperatures caused by rising CO2 would only be felt around the year 2000, and that CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere would double in about 100 years. Those gaps, Shaw wrote, permit "time for an orderly transition to non-fossil fuel technologies should restrictions on fossil fuel use be deemed necessary."

AGAIN:

The document did not raise doubts about the links between fossil fuel use, higher CO2 concentrations and a warmer planet. Shaw wrote:

• "Atmospheric CO2 will double in 100 years if fossil fuels grow at 1.4%/ a2. • 3oC global average temperature rise and 10oC at poles if CO2 doubles. —Major shifts in rainfall/agriculture —Polar ice may melt"

[Jayes]

Thanks for the update

[ggies]

Originally Posted by Jayes Thanks for the update

You are welcome.