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Old 01-10-2021, 08:19 PM   #27601
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When was the last DMB set to not include a cover song?
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Old 01-10-2021, 08:39 PM   #27602
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When was the last DMB set to not include a cover song?
Looks like 9.7.2019
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Old 01-11-2021, 09:44 PM   #27603
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Anyone see the IG post today of Dave Tim and Trey? From Mexico. It’s a nice photo.

I know there was some talk of Tim and Trey not getting along the best during the D/F tour. Still love those shows
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Old 01-12-2021, 05:42 AM   #27604
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I was thinking about this while I was on a run today...

Does anyone know which show might have been prevelant in the early days of limewire/kazaa? Before I learned how to B&P, I downloaded a show and it was all I had. It kept me going for a while! The only thing I can remember is the two step..
Just as a kid in this generation, are you sure it was a whole show? I can only imagine how long that took to download from limwire/Kazaa back in those days


I do remember 41 being labeled “creatively” and where are you going as “Superman” though.
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Old 01-12-2021, 09:31 AM   #27605
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Just as a kid in this generation, are you sure it was a whole show? I can only imagine how long that took to download from limwire/Kazaa back in those days


I do remember 41 being labeled “creatively” and where are you going as “Superman” though.
I was at a show once and someone told me they hoped they played “creatively”.
I was like what??
He says to me something like you call yourself a fan and don’t know the song “creatively”? It is on the blue cd

It totally hit me right then and there that he was talking about #41 and Dave’s intro from LaLC....
This song is called creatively, as it was the 41st song, #41
Lmfaooooo
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Old 01-12-2021, 09:46 AM   #27606
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I know there was some talk of Tim and Trey not getting along the best during the D/F tour. Still love those shows
Was there ever any hard proof in that?
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Old 01-12-2021, 10:39 AM   #27607
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Was there ever any hard proof in that?
Just speculation as far as I know. I believe Tim was fairly critical/disappointed in the “shape” Trey was in. As you know at that time, Trey was very much out of control with the drugs + alcohol.
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Old 01-12-2021, 10:50 AM   #27608
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Anyone see the IG post today of Dave Tim and Trey? From Mexico. It’s a nice photo.

I know there was some talk of Tim and Trey not getting along the best during the D/F tour. Still love those shows
Yes, that was the first thing I thought of when I saw it. It was nice to see. I think the rumors were mostly during the recording of some devil and how that maybe devolved in a shitshow. Matt is right, Tim was probably just fed up with Trey being out of his mind on drugs and going full rock star.
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Old 01-12-2021, 10:58 AM   #27609
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I think what's more interesting was the supposed rift between Dave and Tim. Between '99 and '03, I'm not sure what exactly sparked it, some rumors of Dave just dropping communication with Tim, the band not wanting Tim during the LWS or the ED sessions and Tim taking it as a sleight from Dave himself, supposedly a '00 D&T tour was in the works and Dave never reached out to Tim to let him know it was off rather management reaching out and Tim felt like his friend was distancing himself from him, a few other rumors that were never fully proven. Then, on Tim's live DVD "Chaos View" which was recorded in April '02, there is some backstage footage of Tim and the camera operator taking jabs at Dave.

It was just so weird because the actual DVD wasn't released until the beginning of 2003 when Tim was in the studio with Dave recording Some Devil. Fans didn't really know what to make of it and people assumed the two just made some quick amends by just being in the same room and clearing the air a bit. Then by the time the D&T tour was happening the DVD was no longer available on Tim's site. A lot of that could just easily be coincidence since the D&T tour was announced that fans were excited about D&T touring again and people just shopping for Tim merch and the DVD had sold out. However...the DVD was once again available in 2004, but it was missing the backstage footage. And because of that there was speculation that Tim's people were contacted by DMB management and asked to re-issue the DVD and edit out the backstage Dave banter as it didn't really look good publicity-wise.

A LOT of this was never really proven. Just some interesting coincidences or some truth? Who knows.
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Old 01-12-2021, 11:09 AM   #27610
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Thanks for the info. What were the backstage jabs??
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Old 01-12-2021, 11:14 AM   #27611
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I think what's more interesting was the supposed rift between Dave and Tim. Between '99 and '03, I'm not sure what exactly sparked it, some rumors of Dave just dropping communication with Tim, the band not wanting Tim during the LWS or the ED sessions and Tim taking it as a sleight from Dave himself, supposedly a '00 D&T tour was in the works and Dave never reached out to Tim to let him know it was off rather management reaching out and Tim felt like his friend was distancing himself from him, a few other rumors that were never fully proven. Then, on Tim's live DVD "Chaos View" which was recorded in April '02, there is some backstage footage of Tim and the camera operator taking jabs at Dave.

It was just so weird because the actual DVD wasn't released until the beginning of 2003 when Tim was in the studio with Dave recording Some Devil. Fans didn't really know what to make of it and people assumed the two just made some quick amends by just being in the same room and clearing the air a bit. Then by the time the D&T tour was happening the DVD was no longer available on Tim's site. A lot of that could just easily be coincidence since the D&T tour was announced that fans were excited about D&T touring again and people just shopping for Tim merch and the DVD had sold out. However...the DVD was once again available in 2004, but it was missing the backstage footage. And because of that there was speculation that Tim's people were contacted by DMB management and asked to re-issue the DVD and edit out the backstage Dave banter as it didn't really look good publicity-wise.

A LOT of this was never really proven. Just some interesting coincidences or some truth? Who knows.
This is extremely interesting. I never knew any of it. It kinda makes sense in a way though based on what we know about that time. DMB was at an all time high and so was Dave's personal stock. We know he kinda distanced himself from the band too going with ballard, so it makes sense he left Tim high and dry too. Without reconciling with the rest of the band at ED it makes sense it took until they toured together in 03. Interesting to hear about a cancelled 2000 D&T tour. I bet that would have been fantastic musically (or an utter trainwreck).

Its interesting to hear now how Dave's personality in the late 90s while great for the music, was so toxic personally. In a way, it makes sense why he doesnt go back to those dark places for songwriting as much since that was probably feeding the negative thoughts and then of course the ego building as well. He has reconciled with the people it seems, but never really got back to that spot creatively and as a musician.
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Old 01-12-2021, 11:39 AM   #27612
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This is extremely interesting. I never knew any of it. It kinda makes sense in a way though based on what we know about that time. DMB was at an all time high and so was Dave's personal stock. We know he kinda distanced himself from the band too going with ballard, so it makes sense he left Tim high and dry too. Without reconciling with the rest of the band at ED it makes sense it took until they toured together in 03. Interesting to hear about a cancelled 2000 D&T tour. I bet that would have been fantastic musically (or an utter trainwreck).

Its interesting to hear now how Dave's personality in the late 90s while great for the music, was so toxic personally. In a way, it makes sense why he doesnt go back to those dark places for songwriting as much since that was probably feeding the negative thoughts and then of course the ego building as well. He has reconciled with the people it seems, but never really got back to that spot creatively and as a musician.
That 2000 depression completely changed him. He was never the same again. A vague statement, I know, but musically he lost almost all of his mojo.
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Old 01-12-2021, 12:08 PM   #27613
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A LOT of this was never really proven. Just some interesting coincidences or some truth? Who knows.
During that time I remember being told by someone who had been around dmb from the beginning that they didn't think Tim would ever play with Dave or DMB again. So something happened. Dave definitely seemed to be having a hard time with several things during that time. Fame, deciding who to listen to, and who to trust. I imagine that was a very confusing time for him. I can't fathom becoming that famous that quickly.
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Old 01-12-2021, 12:15 PM   #27614
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During that time I remember being told by someone who had been around dmb from the beginning that they didn't think Tim would ever play with Dave or DMB again. So something happened. Dave definitely seemed to be having a hard time with several things during that time. Fame, deciding who to listen to, and who to trust. I imagine that was a very confusing time for him. I can't fathom becoming that famous that quickly.
Would still love to know what the backstage "jabs" were on that Tim DVD..
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Old 01-12-2021, 12:19 PM   #27615
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Thanks for the info. What were the backstage jabs??
I honestly don't remember exactly but I do remember they weren't deep personal attacks or anything, just silly stuff like poking fun at his voice and the way he holds the guitar. On the surface it all seems more playful than anything but, and this could just be misremembering on my part, the camera guy had a resentment and distaste for Dave in his voice, the way he mentioned Dave. Anyway, I remember Tim saying something, then the camera guy says something else and the two just laugh. Again, it wasn't personal, but it was just weird, awkward, and though it was just silly comments, it did have this feeling like it was coming from a guy whose friendship with Dave was in the rearview mirror so to speak. I wish I could find my DVD copy. I can't find anything since I moved last year. I found it on youtube, but the backstage footage is missing, which leads me to believe the guy who uploaded it has the re-issue release and not the original 2003 release.

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This is extremely interesting. I never knew any of it. It kinda makes sense in a way though based on what we know about that time. DMB was at an all time high and so was Dave's personal stock. We know he kinda distanced himself from the band too going with ballard, so it makes sense he left Tim high and dry too. Without reconciling with the rest of the band at ED it makes sense it took until they toured together in 03. Interesting to hear about a cancelled 2000 D&T tour. I bet that would have been fantastic musically (or an utter trainwreck).

Its interesting to hear now how Dave's personality in the late 90s while great for the music, was so toxic personally. In a way, it makes sense why he doesnt go back to those dark places for songwriting as much since that was probably feeding the negative thoughts and then of course the ego building as well. He has reconciled with the people it seems, but never really got back to that spot creatively and as a musician.
I think there were also comments from Dave during interviews where he sorta defended the band not having Tim around and he made some passive comments kinda of insinuating that they don't need Tim, and while I don't think it was Dave's intention to put down Tim, I think it was also a very stressful time for Dave to make a great record during a time when the band were at odds with each other and Dave was most stressed as he was stuck between a rock and a hard place, probably wanting Tim but also feeling annoyed that people felt Dave NEEDED Tim, and the rest of the band wanting to do it on their own, then of course all the RCA pressure, etc... I think, if the rift was an actual thing that happened between them, I agree that it just makes total sense with the timing of everything.

One thing you have to give the DMB camp...they keep A LOT of their shit in-house. Their dirty laundry is RARELY out for public knowledge. We just end up finding out surface stuff like Dave's letter to the band in '06 (via Big Whiskey interviews), of course Boyd but that was too big to keep quiet, and a few other things but there's stuff that won't ever be out in the open, as it shouldn't be. I'm glad this isn't a band of open-public drama that would totally distract from the music or even fans perceptions of each band or crew member.
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Old 01-12-2021, 12:32 PM   #27616
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I remember all those conspiracies. When they announced the D+T 2003 tour people were stunned.
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Old 01-12-2021, 12:46 PM   #27617
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I remember all those conspiracies. When they announced the D+T 2003 tour people were stunned.
And the quality of the music suffered, ie: Tim, so it all makes sense if the rumours were true.
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Old 01-12-2021, 01:51 PM   #27618
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During that time I remember being told by someone who had been around dmb from the beginning that they didn't think Tim would ever play with Dave or DMB again. So something happened. Dave definitely seemed to be having a hard time with several things during that time. Fame, deciding who to listen to, and who to trust. I imagine that was a very confusing time for him. I can't fathom becoming that famous that quickly.
There has been a lot of white washing of dmb history it seems lately. I remember when i joined the boards (06), people said DMB would never play with Tim again even though he came out in 04 to play that single show. In 07 it was a huge deal that Dave and Tim went on tour, there was something that definitely happened when they went to Europe together and they got much closer. Even bigger deal when tim came on board in 08 for that summer tour. It was discussed as a 1 and done type thing. Obviously with Roi passing things changed dramatically, but that is an alternate universe at this point.

Now I have heard things like Dave saying Tim was always a part of the band and the only reason he wasnt because he didnt want to go through the rough touring schedule but that seems wildly inaccurate. Tim really didnt start playing with DMB until much later, and even at that point it was very sporadic. Lillywhite even took credit for inviting Tim to the UTTAD recording sessions, but idk how credible that is. Steve sounds like he would take credit for the invention of the question mark if he could. Now given this discussion, its strange people think of Tim as now an 'original' member of DMB.
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Old 01-12-2021, 02:57 PM   #27619
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There has been a lot of white washing of dmb history it seems lately. I remember when i joined the boards (06), people said DMB would never play with Tim again even though he came out in 04 to play that single show. In 07 it was a huge deal that Dave and Tim went on tour, there was something that definitely happened when they went to Europe together and they got much closer. Even bigger deal when tim came on board in 08 for that summer tour. It was discussed as a 1 and done type thing. Obviously with Roi passing things changed dramatically, but that is an alternate universe at this point.

Now I have heard things like Dave saying Tim was always a part of the band and the only reason he wasnt because he didnt want to go through the rough touring schedule but that seems wildly inaccurate. Tim really didnt start playing with DMB until much later, and even at that point it was very sporadic. Lillywhite even took credit for inviting Tim to the UTTAD recording sessions, but idk how credible that is. Steve sounds like he would take credit for the invention of the question mark if he could. Now given this discussion, its strange people think of Tim as now an 'original' member of DMB.
Pre-08 and post-08 are different lifetimes. Hard to compare.
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Old 01-13-2021, 01:11 AM   #27620
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Yeah, pretty much all of that is hear-say, there's really no hard evidence that any of this happened. What was consistent is people saying Tim and DMB had a sort of falling out, though it could have easily just been more of a "we're really busy, we fell out of touch" and not so malicious as was rumored, no one really knows. I'm sure we'll get a really in-depth bio at some point written, I hope. Would love to get the inside scoop.

I also don't remember Trey and Tim having any kind of clash or anything, but Trey was at his peak of pills, coke and drug use at that time, and perhaps Tim thought he was being a bad influence on Dave and the rest of the band...but that's all just pure speculation.

Phish fans often blamed Dave for the breakup of Phish, but I think it was more that the D+F tour just made Trey realize he just didn't have what it took to continue to lead a project like that and decided to have that one '04 farewell tour. If you read the most popular Phish Biography, it clearly states the breakup was something Trey had been mulling for years before it happened and kept it secret from the other members. The band was shocked when Trey brought it up in '04, but they all agreed for all of their own health and for the sake of their families it made sense. Turned out to be an incredible move, because now they're still on top of the world and are all healthy and sober again. Trey could have ended up like Jerry if they continued.
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