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Old 05-23-2018, 01:03 PM   #21
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Old 05-23-2018, 01:10 PM   #22
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Implying it's equally over once an allegation is made? Or do you possess additional evidence?
It has been pointed out that the defendant's employer stated in a text message that he was going to sexually exploit him and did other things which caused a hostile work environment. I'm no lawyer, but do you understand the nature of the case? Though I'm not as well versed as others in the discussion, I posses some understanding of what creates a hostile work environment because I actually train new staff on this exact topic at work.

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Old 05-23-2018, 01:38 PM   #23
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What isn't well established at this point is whether Boyd sexually assaulted or harassed James Frost-Winn. Let's be clear: this isn't a case where the defendant stands credibly accused by many independent witnesses (e.g. Cosby, Sandusky, Weinstein, Roy Moore). This is one person's word against another's. There are no other independent public allegations. There is no criminal investigation or report.
I'm not going to acknowledge the irrelevant and victim blaming rest of your post. Let me just put this simply (even though I've posted it multiple times and Christopher James thinks everyone already understands this point):

Boyd is not being sued for sexual assault or sexual harassment. He is being sued for creating a hostile work environment and wrongful termination.

This is an employment law claim, that's why there's no criminal investigation.

Whether the victim was consenting or not isn't relevant. There are multi-prong tests to prove hostile work environment and constructive termination, the complaint thoroughly and clearly walks through those prongs and, using objective evidence, already proved it.

To oversimplify, only a bit, when any employer tells an employee in writing "I'm going to sexually exploit your for profit", the employer is almost certainly violating employment law.


Note: My knowledge of Washington State Law is based solely on reading this complaint.
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Old 05-23-2018, 01:40 PM   #24
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I know loyalty is a revolutionary concept in a day where morally bankrupt lemmings love to neigh and pile onto the latest narrative that is spoon fed to them. Talk about acting "high and mighty" and being morally self-righteous.

I don't automatically assume the worst about my friends and family when it's a he said/he said situation.
LET HE WHO HASN'T JERKED OFF ON HIS SLEEPING EMPLOYEE CAST THE FIRST STONE!
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Old 05-23-2018, 01:43 PM   #25
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LET HE WHO HASN'T JERKED OFF ON HIS SLEEPING EMPLOYEE CAST THE FIRST STONE!
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Old 05-23-2018, 01:46 PM   #26
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LET HE WHO HASN'T JERKED OFF ON HIS SLEEPING EMPLOYEE CAST THE FIRST STONE!
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Old 05-23-2018, 01:48 PM   #27
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Old 05-23-2018, 01:49 PM   #28
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It has been pointed out that the defendant's employer stated in a text message that he was going to sexually exploit him and did other things which caused a hostile work environment. I'm no lawyer, but do you understand the nature of the case? Though I'm not as well versed as others in the discussion, I posses some understanding of what creates a hostile work environment because I actually train new staff on this exact topic at work.

Kantola Productions makes an awesome series you should check out!

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Pointed out by whom? The plaintiff/accuser? The guy who wants 9 million dollars? Shocking.
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Old 05-23-2018, 01:50 PM   #29
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Try to keep up, Otis.
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Old 05-23-2018, 01:55 PM   #30
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Whether the victim was consenting or not isn't relevant.
Oh, you mean it's not relevant if the accuser is full of shit and was actually consensually fucking Boyd until he decided to cook up this whole lawsuit to extort Boyd for 9 million dollars? Kewl bud.

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the complaint thoroughly and clearly walks through those prongs and, using objective evidence, already proved it.
Ohhhhh. I see. All legal complaints filed in court by a party opponent are "objective evidence" and are self-proving allegations. Interesting legal analysis!


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Note: My knowledge of Washington State Law is based solely on reading this complaint.
Translation: you don't know shit.

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Old 05-23-2018, 01:56 PM   #31
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:07 PM   #32
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Translation: you don't know shit.
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:09 PM   #33
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:10 PM   #34
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Translation: you don't know shit.
finally something we can agree on
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:11 PM   #35
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LET HE WHO HASN'T JERKED OFF ON HIS SLEEPING EMPLOYEE CAST THE FIRST STONE!
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:12 PM   #36
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It's pretty well established that Boyd is musically the weakest link of DMB. All one has to do is listen to his solo album, True Reflections, or consider the positive reception of recent shows featuring his absence. Although to be fair, anyone except Dave himself is completely replaceable in the band. And lately, after listening to Come Tomorrow, perhaps Dave should consider replacing himself as well. His successor could scarcely do worst.

What isn't well established at this point is whether Boyd sexually assaulted or harassed James Frost-Winn. Let's be clear: this isn't a case where the defendant stands credibly accused by many independent witnesses (e.g. Cosby, Sandusky, Weinstein, Roy Moore). This is one person's word against another's. There are no other independent public allegations. There is no criminal investigation or report.

What is there? Well, there's a lawsuit asking for $9 MILLION dollars in damages. This lawsuit was filed years after the alleged conduct occurred. It came after Frost-Winn's attorneys acknowledged a failed attempt to shake Boyd down for money. It comes from a washed-up trumpet player, a former "street musician," (read: homeless guy) and ex-member of Boyd's side-project, Crystal Garden.

Frost-Winn acknowledges in the complaint that they met in 2007, and their relationship persisted for years. Perhaps the complaint's crescendo is where Boyd allegedly rubbed Frost-Winn's butt in November 2015, however, Frost-Winn didn't quit the band until after August 2016, over 9 months later. All the while continuing to hang out with Tinsley socially, send Tinsley selfies, and accept gifts. Again, this is all coming from Frost-Winn, and represents his one-sided account and best day in court.

There are enough red flags here to give anyone pause. Unless you're the sort of simple-minded fool who believes that people never lie or falsely accuse others of wrongdoing, then just place yourself in Boyd's dirty socks for a minute. People lie all the time. About everything and nothing. The only difference between Boyd being falsely accused, and one of you losers, is that Boyd actually has some cash to siphon away. Which supplies the oldest motive of all.

It may turn out that other members of Crystal Garden come forward (Frost-Winn's complaint indicates other members of the band experiences similar harassment). It may be other independent allegations surface that corroborate Boyd's alleged behavior. If that were to happen, the known evidence would change. But right now, there isn't any reason to believe Boyd engaged in any wrongdoing whatsoever.

First, Boyd has denied the allegations publicly. Second, we know he had the opportunity to pay off Frost-Winn privately in a closed settlement, and none would be the wiser, and he refused. Third, multiple things can be true at once. For example, it can be true Boyd had a consensual sexual relationship with Frost-Winn that ultimately soured, leading to a blackmail situation when Frost-Winn's golden goose stopped laying eggs. As a public figure with a wife and two children, and, especially as a potential black man on the 'down low' Boyd would have made a vulnerable target. And all of that could be true while at the same time it being true that Frost-Winn inflated and exaggerated his story to include unwanted touching, etc.

It's absurd that people are treating Frost-Winn as some sort of doe-eyed naive ingenue who wilted under the malicious pressure of the terrifying black man. We're talking about a 30 year old former homeless street busker. Even though this band has deteriorated into complete shit over the the last 20 years, I've been a fan since the early 90s. So have most of you, and it's the most fair-weather, bandwagon-er, backstabbing, cowardly sort of person that washes their hands of Boyd over unsubstantiated, uncorroborated, denied, and utterly weak allegations like these.
You forgot the obvious thing that will get boyd off (aside from skinny white dudes) is the whole shaving of the pubes down to the cock base. We all know boyd would never recommend this... an obvious forgery frame job.
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:13 PM   #37
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:16 PM   #38
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:19 PM   #39
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Oh you mean it's not relevant if the accuser is full of shit and was actually consensually fucking Boyd until he decided to cook up this whole lawsuit to extort Boyd for 9 million dollars?
Correct. Employment law imputes that risk onto bosses who fuck their own employees.

Note, also, there's yet to be any evidence there was ever a relationship between the two, that's just a blind hypothetical you are throwing out.


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Ohhhhh. I see. All legal complaints filed in court by a party opponent are "objective evidence" and are self-proving allegations. Interesting legal analysis!
You're right, it's not objective. A party's own statements against interest are actually of more evidentiary value than merely objective facts.
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:20 PM   #40
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Damn, this guy is good!
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