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Old 05-20-2012, 09:19 PM   #261
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yeah but lillywhite has said it takes boyd numerous takes to get anything useful out of him.

as fun as he was those first few years of the band, it's apparent to me he's just not a very talented musician. i know that ruffles some feathers and some folks don't like to hear that, but it's true.
Yea h's never been a virtuoso. As far as violin playing goes he's absolute shit compared to skilled players. He worked well before in the band though. He knew his role, wrote some nice interplay lines and melodies and while his solos were rarely technically great, he played them with a lot of passion and energy. Now you get absolutely none of that.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:19 PM   #262
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So what's the consensus on what Blue Water would sound like now if they pulled out a full version again (will never happen). Hard to mute a 3 minute solo.
See, now THAT'S a good example. I never got on 2009 Blue Water train because they didn't feel like true complete performances because it wasn't that slow build really hard driven crescendo from the band and more specifically Boyd. People kept saying "it's back!", but to me it just felt like a shadow of what it used to be.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:20 PM   #263
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What a strange argument. "Boyd sucks", "Yeah but he's always sucked so it's ok".
I don't know squat about music so I never have thought sucked, but there are times like in 2003 when I knew he was not playing good, but for the most part I didn't think he was horrible or at least the suckiness others talk about didn't bother me as much.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:20 PM   #264
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It's funny because when I first got into the band, one of the big things so many people would talk about before I'd seem them live was how nuts the violin player would go during his solos and how great of a showman he was. Regardless of playing ability, Boyd definitely cared and tried to put on a show. His level of disengagement now is just startling because I don't think I've ever seen somebody consistently give less of a shit. He doesn't even try to play his parts correctly. That's the height of mailing it in.
I don't necessarily need him running in circles on stage, but I think you should at least give a shit about maintaining the creative vitality of the band. I mean, the guy for all intents and purposes didn't even bother showing up for their last studio record.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:20 PM   #265
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So what's the consensus on what Blue Water would sound like now if they pulled out a full version again (will never happen). Hard to mute a 3 minute solo.
jeff could do some really dark and aggressive stuff similar to what boyd used to do. a similar vibe i mean.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:21 PM   #266
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jeff could do some really dark and aggressive stuff similar to what boyd used to do. a similar vibe i mean.
I would love to hear it again whether it's Jeff or Boyd, but I don't think it will ever happen because it used to be a showcase of Boyd.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:21 PM   #267
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I don't necessarily need him running in circles on stage, but I think you should at least give a shit about maintaining the creative vitality of the band. I mean, the guy for all intents and purposes didn't even bother showing up for their last studio record.
Totally agree. And I just think that level of disconnectedness shows up on stage pretty glaringly now too. BW was a travesty on his part.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:22 PM   #268
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You need many history lessons since you claim the last few years are worse than 1998. My proof is physical evidence you can actually play on your computer/iPod. You're just running around in circles of your own opinion with no examples in comparisons to combat my claim of '98 being worse. So don't sit there acting like you know. You only know because you see everyone mentioning these things on the boards and then adopt those opinions as your common knowledge.

Boyd never fully recovered from 1998. He's been hit or miss every year since, some years he's had worse tours than others. But he never "rebounded in some way" after '98 for any consistent amount of time. But I can keep going with actual shows and specific performances and shitty stretches of shows if you need more history lessons.
You are claiming that two years of sporadically being bad is worse than 4 years of consistently being bad. Blowing off an album and generally not caring. Sorry I don't buy it.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:22 PM   #269
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What a strange argument. "Boyd sucks", "Yeah but he's always sucked so it's ok".
Oh no, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying everything is fine and dandy, my original point was that he's been up and down for 14 years, and now that he's all of a sudden backing away from playing certain unimportant parts in tunes people are furious and want him gone. Well...my question is...why aren't those people having those campaigns every year?
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:22 PM   #270
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Totally agree. And I just think that level of disconnectedness shows up on stage pretty glaringly now too. BW was a travesty on his part.
Still got paid for it.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:22 PM   #271
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I would love to hear it again whether it's Jeff or Boyd, but I don't think it will ever happen because it used to be a showcase of Boyd.
i don't think the band looks at things that way
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:23 PM   #272
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Oh no, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying everything is fine and dandy, my original point was that he's been up and down for 14 years, and now that he's all of a sudden backing away from playing certain unimportant parts in tunes people are furious and want him gone. Well...my question is...why aren't those people having those campaigns every year?
Well, I think if he was having those periods of good times it maybe lessened the impact of how bad things got.

Plus, it seemed like he gave a damn.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:23 PM   #273
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i don't think the band looks at things that way
They may not, just something that I'm throwing out there. I think it comes back to not wanting to play a song like this these days compared to what they want to play now.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:24 PM   #274
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Which is what i was saying when it doesn't even matter. Those parts he's supposed to play...do we REALLY miss the extra added melody? I mean honestly. Again, not defending him but it's like people what him gone because he's not playing some parts of tunes that don't hold too much value.
yeah, i completely miss his old parts and I miss what he could add to the newer material and covers they play. that's why I want them to try out a new violin player.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:25 PM   #275
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Oh no, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying everything is fine and dandy, my original point was that he's been up and down for 14 years, and now that he's all of a sudden backing away from playing certain unimportant parts in tunes people are furious and want him gone. Well...my question is...why aren't those people having those campaigns every year?
I do miss some of his parts though - shit, I missed his ONE note backing contribution on IIHIA the other night, Grace used to be a vehicle for him, and Crush is way different now without him all over it, etc. Maybe he miss his contributions more than most?
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:25 PM   #276
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Oh no, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying everything is fine and dandy, my original point was that he's been up and down for 14 years, and now that he's all of a sudden backing away from playing certain unimportant parts in tunes people are furious and want him gone. Well...my question is...why aren't those people having those campaigns every year?
Part of it is certainly the disinterested demeanor on stage. Even though his playing was never great, he sort of made up for it with his energetic stage presence. Now he just brings nothing to the table at all.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:25 PM   #277
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Well, I think if he was having those periods of good times it maybe lessened the impact of how bad things got.

Plus, it seemed like he gave a damn.
yeah, I'm sure Brandon will point out a skree at the :53 mark on some Fall '98 show, but Boyd killed that tour.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:25 PM   #278
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i honestly can't think of one time i've listened to a 2008-present show and thought "i miss what boyd used to play here". i don't even fucking remember or notice it.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:26 PM   #279
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yeah, i completely miss his old parts and I miss what he could add to the newer material and covers they play. that's why I want them to try out a new violin player.
Honest question, but if Boyd did come back and play and seemed into and adding to new materail, etc but sounded like he did in 98 and part of 2003, would you rather have him or someone new and more talented? Just interested in your thought, obvioulsy no right or wrong.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:27 PM   #280
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Well, I agree with him that a lot of what I heard from 98/99 sounds horrific...I just think the apparent lack of interest, coupled with a band that has gotten back on it's feet after a five-year period in the woods, has made these complaints bigger.
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