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Old 05-20-2012, 09:08 PM   #241
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I mean, there was some really, really bad stuff played by Boyd for well over a decade now, but I didn't get the impression ten years ago that he just didn't give a shit. I think that seems apparent now.

That's why the comparisons to Dave or Tim or any other member don't make sense to me. Sure, they fuck up, they do things I don't like, but overall I don't get the impression that they're mailing it in.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:08 PM   #242
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No you are trying to give us a history lesson that we already know. Everybody knows that Boyd has had his rough patches but he's always rebounded in some way. However, those rough patches haven't typically included forgetting parts signature parts and completely blowing off albums. He's been on the downslide since 2008. This isn't another rough patch. It's time for him to hang it up.
Some new blood would be really interesting, mainly because he/she would first learn the album parts and actually play them. Then we'd hear them and be like, oh yeah - THAT is how it is supposed to sound (I really miss the Nancies pre-chorus, but Boyd hasn't played that since 1999).

But I highly doubt that will happen, not while BT is cashin' out.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:09 PM   #243
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I compare Boyd Tinsley to Kyle Orton when he was on the Broncos, just earning a paycheck. #sarcasm.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:09 PM   #244
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yeah, the biggest issue now is the lack of care. like i said, when he actually plays it doesn't sound as bad as it has in the past but it's not even a resemblance of the melody he's supposed to be playing. it's just a different problem now.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:10 PM   #245
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I mean, there was some really, really bad stuff played by Boyd for well over a decade now, but I didn't get the impression ten years ago that he just didn't give a shit. I think that seems apparent now.

That's why the comparisons to Dave or Tim or any other member don't make sense to me. Sure, they fuck up, they do things I don't like, but overall I don't get the impression that they're mailing it in.
Agreed, because for a screw up on something, they seem to put effort into that screw up or the rest of the show.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:10 PM   #246
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dude, '98 and '99 were almost entirely shit as far as boyd is concerned. that's two full years. 2003, even the second half, was an entire year of shit. yes, this has been the worst. but you're exaggerating it a bit.
They were shitty because he was out of tune. But he was still animated and cared about playing his parts. He was still contributing to their new material. Totally different than what's been going on for the past 4 years. Although he has obviously skree'd it up a lot over the past 4 years too.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:10 PM   #247
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I mean he came out right out the doors on the first night of the tour and couldn't even pluck the parts to BEF correctly.
Dude, he was riffing. No two version of DMB songs are the same, man...

But seriously that shit was sad, the first effing notes.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:12 PM   #248
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I only disagree with this because Boyd had some, at the time, what seemed to be important additions and contributions to the 2004 songs but when that was scrapped for Stand Up, and Rashawn was brought on board at the end of 2005, it's like there was a conscious effort to drive the music towards the horn section just as a quick diversion away from the poor material they had just created with SU. I just think it was easier for the band to incorporate and overlaying horn structure on songs like Idea Of You and it was something they felt comfortable in. I'm not saying you're wrong, who knows the core reason for that change in direction but to me it just seemed like it was an attempt to quickly push away from the drudgery sound they fell into in 2005.
Fair point. I don't necessarily disagree. That's why I said it could be "argued". Obviously we don't know what drove them to move to the horn section sound. But I imagine that Boyd's lack of quality contributions made it a pretty easy call. Regardless, with a capable musician, the violin could still have remained prominent even with a horn section.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:13 PM   #249
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i thought it was confirmed roi wanted the horn sound...
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:13 PM   #250
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No you are trying to give us a history lesson that we already know. Everybody knows that Boyd has had his rough patches but he's always rebounded in some way. However, those rough patches haven't typically included forgetting parts signature parts and completely blowing off albums. He's been on the downslide since 2008. This isn't another rough patch. It's time for him to hang it up.

You need many history lessons since you claim the last few years are worse than 1998. My proof is physical evidence you can actually play on your computer/iPod. You're just running around in circles of your own opinion with no examples in comparisons to combat my claim of '98 being worse. So don't sit there acting like you know. You only know because you see everyone mentioning these things on the boards and then adopt those opinions as your common knowledge.

Boyd never fully recovered from 1998. He's been hit or miss every year since, some years he's had worse tours than others. But he never "rebounded in some way" after '98 for any consistent amount of time. But I can keep going with actual shows and specific performances and shitty stretches of shows if you need more history lessons.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:14 PM   #251
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yes it was. I think he had wanted it for some time. I think the lousiness of the Stand Up material was a catalyst for him because I'm sure he was bored as shit with the material.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:15 PM   #252
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You need many history lessons since you claim the last few years are worse than 1998. My proof is physical evidence you can actually play on your computer/iPod. You're just running around in circles of your own opinion with no examples in comparisons to combat my claim of '98 being worse. So don't sit there acting like you know. You only know because you see everyone mentioning these things on the boards and then adopt those opinions as your common knowledge.

Boyd never fully recovered from 1998. He's been hit or miss every year since, some years he's had worse tours than others. But he never "rebounded in some way" after '98 for any consistent amount of time. But I can keep going with actual shows and specific performances and shitty stretches of shows if you need more history lessons.
to be fair, Brandon, he's talking about a different issue with what's going on currently. boyd doesn't even play most of what he used to anymore, he just stands there. when he does play it's not the right melodies. basically, i agree with both of you
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:15 PM   #253
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Apropos of practically nothing, but IMO Boyd's finest studio work was on the LWS. The BEF outro is awesome, and Captain was unreal...so, he was ON in the studio in 2000. Let's remember the good times.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:16 PM   #254
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Apropos of practically nothing, but IMO Boyd's finest studio work was on the LWS. The BEF outro is awesome, and Captain was unreal...so, he was ON in the studio in 2000. Let's remember the good times.
I might have to go back and listen to 93 show also to keep remember the good times with Boyd also.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:17 PM   #255
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to be fair, Brandon, he's talking about a different issue with what's going on currently. boyd doesn't even play most of what he used to anymore, he just stands there. when he does play it's not the right melodies. basically, i agree with both of you
Which is what i was saying when it doesn't even matter. Those parts he's supposed to play...do we REALLY miss the extra added melody? I mean honestly. Again, not defending him but it's like people what him gone because he's not playing some parts of tunes that don't hold too much value.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:17 PM   #256
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I mean, there was some really, really bad stuff played by Boyd for well over a decade now, but I didn't get the impression ten years ago that he just didn't give a shit. I think that seems apparent now
It's funny because when I first got into the band, one of the big things so many people would talk about before I'd seem them live was how nuts the violin player would go during his solos and how great of a showman he was. Regardless of playing ability, Boyd definitely cared and tried to put on a show. His level of disengagement now is just startling because I don't think I've ever seen somebody consistently give less of a shit. He doesn't even try to play his parts correctly. That's the height of mailing it in.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:17 PM   #257
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Apropos of practically nothing, but IMO Boyd's finest studio work was on the LWS. The BEF outro is awesome, and Captain was unreal...so, he was ON in the studio in 2000. Let's remember the good times.
yeah but lillywhite has said it takes boyd numerous takes to get anything useful out of him.

as fun as he was those first few years of the band, it's apparent to me he's just not a very talented musician. i know that ruffles some feathers and some folks don't like to hear that, but it's true.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:17 PM   #258
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Which is what i was saying when it doesn't even matter. Those parts he's supposed to play...do we REALLY miss the extra added melody? I mean honestly. Again, not defending him but it's like people what him gone because he's not playing some parts of tunes that don't hold too much value.
you're absolutely right.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:17 PM   #259
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So what's the consensus on what Blue Water would sound like now if they pulled out a full version again (will never happen). Hard to mute a 3 minute solo.
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