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Old 10-31-2018, 04:05 AM   #5501
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So this is one of the best baseball teams ever, right? No, not THE best, I'm not crazy, but if you're doing a top 10 list this team should make the cut.

Brandon thank you for mentioning Puig too, that guy annoys the crap out of me and seeing him deflate was just another nice touch to this thing for me.
I think they're not a great 108 win team. I know it's tough to knock a team that wins that many games. They were a great team, but I don't know if I'd say they're in the top teams of all time. '97 Mariners, '98 Yanks, '01 Mariners, '54 Indians, '86 Mets, '75 Reds, '27 Yanks...just to name a few I'd put ahead of them.

I just didn't think they were a "complete" team. Their bullpen was really suspect (though pitched well in the CS and WS) but Cora was so worried about it he had to put Sale and Evoladi in the pen to be safe. Kimbrel was a shaky closer. The lineup saved them because everyone was hot and just kept hitting including Pearce who came out of nowhere.

I think the win total was inflated because of how awful the orioles and some of the teams the Red Sox and Yankees played throughout the season. Some god awful teams in the league this year.
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:20 AM   #5502
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Yea the '97 Mariners were def better They won 90 games and didn't even get out of the ALDS. What are you talking about?
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Old 10-31-2018, 10:04 AM   #5503
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I think they're not a great 108 win team. I know it's tough to knock a team that wins that many games. They were a great team, but I don't know if I'd say they're in the top teams of all time. '97 Mariners, '98 Yanks, '01 Mariners, '54 Indians, '86 Mets, '75 Reds, '27 Yanks...just to name a few I'd put ahead of them.

I just didn't think they were a "complete" team. Their bullpen was really suspect (though pitched well in the CS and WS) but Cora was so worried about it he had to put Sale and Evoladi in the pen to be safe. Kimbrel was a shaky closer. The lineup saved them because everyone was hot and just kept hitting including Pearce who came out of nowhere.

I think the win total was inflated because of how awful the orioles and some of the teams the Red Sox and Yankees played throughout the season. Some god awful teams in the league this year.
So you wouldn't even put them top 10 of all time? Come on. I never said they were best, but they are up there. Look at the numbers. Also:

- Bullpen: They saw their weaknesses and made up for them. This is a bad thing?
- Inflated wins because the competition sucked: I guess you need to take the '27 Yanks off of your list then. Also they defeated two teams in the playoffs that had 100 wins or more, and only lost one game to each of them. For God's sake they shared a division with one of those teams and won the season series against them (granted by only one game). Yeah they beat a lot of bad teams but they beat good ones as well.
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Old 10-31-2018, 10:33 AM   #5504
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So you wouldn't even put them top 10 of all time? Come on. I never said they were best, but they are up there. Look at the numbers. Also:

- Bullpen: They saw their weaknesses and made up for them. This is a bad thing?
- Inflated wins because the competition sucked: I guess you need to take the '27 Yanks off of your list then. Also they defeated two teams in the playoffs that had 100 wins or more, and only lost one game to each of them. For God's sake they shared a division with one of those teams and won the season series against them (granted by only one game). Yeah they beat a lot of bad teams but they beat good ones as well.
This. For reference 35% of that teams wins came against opponents who finished with a sub .385 winning percentage. Whereas this year's Sox team had 22% of their win total come via wins vs. such competition.

EDIT: And just to add, I'll throw teams under .400. Which puts the Sox percentage up to a bit over 29%. Still shows that argument doesn't really hold water. I'm a Yankee fan but by almost all measures, this Sox team should be considered alongside the greatest single season teams in history. Trying to deny that just seems petty to me.
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:26 AM   #5505
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So you wouldn't even put them top 10 of all time? Come on. I never said they were best, but they are up there. Look at the numbers. Also:

- Bullpen: They saw their weaknesses and made up for them. This is a bad thing?
- Inflated wins because the competition sucked: I guess you need to take the '27 Yanks off of your list then. Also they defeated two teams in the playoffs that had 100 wins or more, and only lost one game to each of them. For God's sake they shared a division with one of those teams and won the season series against them (granted by only one game). Yeah they beat a lot of bad teams but they beat good ones as well.
This.

Also, Ď01 Mariners? Come on. And Sale was put in the bullpen exactly one time in the world series and it was a great move.
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:25 PM   #5506
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This.

Also, ‘01 Mariners? Come on. And Sale was put in the bullpen exactly one time in the world series and it was a great move.
At least him citing the '01 Mariners you can mildly understand given their regular season win total (but they lost the ALCS in 5 games so it's still a no way). '97 Mariners was a serious to see
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Old 10-31-2018, 01:35 PM   #5507
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This. For reference 35% of that teams wins came against opponents who finished with a sub .385 winning percentage. Whereas this year's Sox team had 22% of their win total come via wins vs. such competition.

EDIT: And just to add, I'll throw teams under .400. Which puts the Sox percentage up to a bit over 29%. Still shows that argument doesn't really hold water. I'm a Yankee fan but by almost all measures, this Sox team should be considered alongside the greatest single season teams in history. Trying to deny that just seems petty to me.
Thanks. I want the Sox to go on the same kind of run that your Yankees did in the late 90s. And if your team then beats us when we're in that peak form I'll tip my cap and call you my daddy

Side note: '04 was magic for us for a lot of reasons but one of them was not just because we came back and beat the Yankees in that series it was because we beat THOSE Yankees. We literally came back against a team full of future hall of famers. Hate them all you want but respect too.

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This.

Also, Ď01 Mariners? Come on. And Sale was put in the bullpen exactly one time in the world series and it was a great move.
I assume he was also talking about Eovoldi, though his biggest bullpen outing was the 18 inning game where all bullpen rules go out the window anyway.
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Old 10-31-2018, 01:55 PM   #5508
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But they extended eovaldi in the first game because that’s what Cora needed to do to win. I would almost argue Roberts could have cost his team a world series (atleast a six or 7 game run) by never using certain guys out of the pen. He kept running a guy out there who literally allowed every inherited runner he faced to score. Trying to use that as a negative for the Sox team is insane.
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Old 10-31-2018, 02:19 PM   #5509
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Roberts got outmanaged to an insane degree in this series. I completely agree if he had a better feel for the game in the WS it would've gone at least 6. Still think the Sox would've won but he made multiple decisions that blew up spectacularly for him.
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Old 10-31-2018, 10:03 PM   #5510
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:40 PM   #5511
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Yeah you guys make good points, but I was looking at these teams as a whole from s distance. I wasn’t factoring in how far they got in the playoffs. If you want to include that in, then obviously that matters. But I meant just on paper.

I’m not saying they aren’t a great team, but I also think they got incredibly hot at the right time. Had Sanchez hit that ball a little deeper in that 9th inning off Kimbrel, Sox might not have went on to win that series. Though winning 108 games, it’s tough to pinpoint any parts of the season where they weren’t on fire. Though I thought they started to lose some steam in September.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:03 PM   #5512
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Iím not saying they arenít a great team, but I also think they got incredibly hot at the right time.

Though winning 108 games, itís tough to pinpoint any parts of the season where they werenít on fire. Though I thought they started to lose some steam in September.
I mean, I donít even know how to respond to this. They did rest guys in September. They also lost their best pitcher and The CY Young frontrunner for almost 1/2 the season and still won the world series.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:45 PM   #5513
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Meh who cares they won 108 games, steamrolled two 100 win teams, and won the World Series, anyone who questions how great they were is in denial
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Old 11-01-2018, 02:10 PM   #5514
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Yeah you guys make good points, but I was looking at these teams as a whole from s distance. I wasnít factoring in how far they got in the playoffs. If you want to include that in, then obviously that matters. But I meant just on paper.

Iím not saying they arenít a great team, but I also think they got incredibly hot at the right time. Had Sanchez hit that ball a little deeper in that 9th inning off Kimbrel, Sox might not have went on to win that series. Though winning 108 games, itís tough to pinpoint any parts of the season where they werenít on fire. Though I thought they started to lose some steam in September.
Yep, from March through October. Just got lucky like that. I'm a Yankees fan, but come on.
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Old 11-01-2018, 02:17 PM   #5515
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Canít lie that thereís Definitley some bitter bias on my part being a yanks fan. I just also think there wasnít a lot of competition in the league though. The yanks, Sox and astros were the best teams by far I think. So many terrible teams.
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Old 11-01-2018, 02:18 PM   #5516
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Roberts got outmanaged to an insane degree in this series. I completely agree if he had a better feel for the game in the WS it would've gone at least 6. Still think the Sox would've won but he made multiple decisions that blew up spectacularly for him.
He was awful in the series. I was surprised how bad the lineups were that he put out there. He had kike Hernandez batting cleanup even though he was like 1 for 20 with runners in scoring position. Kershaw also just didn’t give great performances, and they really needed him to.
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