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NiCK (Crush) 01-22-2020 06:36 PM

Yeah I've heard the Rockies argument, but what are they supposed to do? So all Rockie greats are going to have an automatic harder time getting into the hall?

If Jeter had played 20 years in Colorado with his exact same Yankees numbers, he doesn't get in as easily?

There are definitely flaws in the system.

greykitkat36 01-22-2020 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiCK (Crush) (Post 7221473)
Yeah I've heard the Rockies argument, but what are they supposed to do? So all Rockie greats are going to have an automatic harder time getting into the hall?

If Jeter had played 20 years in Colorado with his exact same Yankees numbers, he doesn't get in as easily?

There are definitely flaws in the system.

It’s Definitley a flawed system for sure, it’s not perfect. Rockies players will just have to have more equal splits for home and away. Walker hit so many more Hrs at home than away and his average is like 70pts higher home than away.

They’ll have to do what LeMahieu did this year and have killer seasons either playing for different teams, or great stats on the road as well as home.....OR get 3,000 hits or 500HRs. Those milestones pretty much allow the voters to disregard everything else (except steroids of course)

NiCK (Crush) 02-04-2020 02:42 PM

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mja271 02-04-2020 04:24 PM

Oh no Mitch, say it ain’t so

Jack 02-04-2020 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mja271 (Post 7222037)
Oh no Mitch, say it ainít so

First thing I thought when barstool mentioned the rumor :lol

Mitch 02-04-2020 08:53 PM

So, so far this offseason the Mets have:
  • Fired a manager
  • Hired a manager
  • Sold the team
  • Fired a manager again
  • Hired a manager again
  • Unsold the team

... and the season doesn't start for another 7 weeks.

ThememanXX 02-04-2020 10:54 PM

Goddamn....Red Sox with a salary dump. You hate to see it.

Mitch 02-05-2020 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThememanXX (Post 7222042)
Goddamn....Red Sox with a salary dump. You hate to see it.

Right? It's not often you see a team like the Sox trade away a prime-age stud in a salary dump. I mean, I guess it shows that the "competitive balance tax" is working since this is a move you usually only see small market teams make.

Jack 02-05-2020 11:36 AM

Well, at this point I barely care about the sox anymore because of ownership, but I hate to see the fans so willingly accept the trade of the only home grown MVP in my lifetime as inevitable. The red sox expect their fans to pay above market value to consume a product where they refuse to pay market value to retain their own players. People are acting like, how dare Mookie ask for 420 mil! THAT IS THE MARKET! Why should he give one of the wealthiest organizations in baseball a steep discount? Ridiculous.

NiCK (Crush) 02-05-2020 11:58 AM

Red Sox dumping salary scares me though, they'll do something with that money eventually.

Fan#41 02-05-2020 12:04 PM

I get a strong sense that in 5 years we won't see a lot of these 10+ year contracts offered especially when players are demanding half a billion dollars. The viewership decline, shaky and inconsistent fan attendance, lowered merch sales due to overproduction, extremely bad press on a global scale due to scandals...all of this seems to be building towards something that will effect players (and owners) bottom line which is $. The tax balance in my opinion was implemented more as a public showing of good faith from MLB to fans across the country, but as we all know it doesn't guarantee anything in the long run.

Now you have ownership of teams creating new value systems of players fresh out of college, minors and walk-ons in terms of ANY injury no matter how small so that they (the owners) will have a better standing on risk-vs-reward when it comes to contract negotiations. A bunch of market agents have been complaining about this for years now because quite frankly you'd see a lot more contracts with demanded value like Mookie's or Trout's over the last 3 - 5 years but behind closed doors teams are telling these agents to not even bother demanding these large deals because their client (ie; the player) will be threatened with bad press and PR for demanding the "unreasonable".

roshea999 02-06-2020 08:31 PM

I'm really worried about a lockout/work stoppage when the CBA expires after 2021.

The owners are all miserable assholes. The players get screwed their first 6 years in the league. Just the whole system needs a do over. The luxury tax is a scam and the players association somehow agreed to it. Tony Clark needs to go.

Minor leaguers are treated like shit. And there's so much money pumped into the league.

roshea999 02-06-2020 08:32 PM

Double post. But for good measure, the owners blow.

roshea999 02-06-2020 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch (Post 7222057)
Right? It's not often you see a team like the Sox trade away a prime-age stud in a salary dump. I mean, I guess it shows that the "competitive balance tax" is working since this is a move you usually only see small market teams make.

I think the only winner here are the owners. How can a team like the Red Sox move a legitimate stud for salary relief? They're printing money.

Fans deserve better. Fans in every market. There's no reason the Rockies can't have a 200+m payroll. Or the Rays. Or the Pirates.

greykitkat36 02-07-2020 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roshea999 (Post 7222107)
I'm really worried about a lockout/work stoppage when the CBA expires after 2021.

The owners are all miserable assholes. The players get screwed their first 6 years in the league. Just the whole system needs a do over. The luxury tax is a scam and the players association somehow agreed to it. Tony Clark needs to go.

Minor leaguers are treated like shit. And there's so much money pumped into the league.

This will absolutely happen, though I think they'll settle things before it gets to any kind of lockout. They'll lower the amount of years of team control over the young players, the MLBPA is pushing for it hard with the way the owners are handling their teams now.

Teams are going after the model of homegrowing their farm system and build up their inventory of prospects, while getting rid of any players over 28, give or take. The Yankees have been smart recently by locking these players into smaller contracts before arbitration so they avoid having to get rid of them or pay them astronomically. Hicks got a really team-friendly deal as did Severino, and I'm sure they're planning on trying to do the same with Judge and Sanchez after this season.

greykitkat36 02-07-2020 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roshea999 (Post 7222109)
I think the only winner here are the owners. How can a team like the Red Sox move a legitimate stud for salary relief? They're printing money.

As great as Betts is, they clearly didn't think he was worth what he was asking for, which was in the 330 Million range over 8+ years. The Dodgers get lucky for this season, but they're gonna pay a kings ransom to keep him, which I'm assuming they're planning on doing, otherwise they wouldn't have made the deal.

And, it's honestly makes sense. Look at the teams who have paid insane amounts to have stars in recent years...they haven't come close to winning anything since making those deals. Angels (Trout), Phillies (Harper), Mets (DeGrom), and put Yankees on that list if they don't win this year after singing Cole. It's not a recipe for success by any means.

Mitch 02-07-2020 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greykitkat36 (Post 7222118)
And, it's honestly makes sense. Look at the teams who have paid insane amounts to have stars in recent years...they haven't come close to winning anything since making those deals. Angels (Trout), Phillies (Harper), Mets (DeGrom), and put Yankees on that list if they don't win this year after singing Cole. It's not a recipe for success by any means.

There's no way I would call the deGrom contract "insane." It's an absolute bargain compared to the deals given to Cole and Strasburg this winter.

greykitkat36 02-08-2020 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch (Post 7222134)
There's no way I would call the deGrom contract "insane." It's an absolute bargain compared to the deals given to Cole and Strasburg this winter.

I agree with you/ its not insane at all. They didnít have to pay him though, they could have waited. That being said, in general singing these guys to major long term giant contacts just hasnít paid off in recent years. Smart GMs know this and theyíd rather gamble with controllable young prospects.

Mitch 02-08-2020 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greykitkat36 (Post 7222162)
I agree with you/ its not insane at all. They didnít have to pay him though, they could have waited. .

But if they waited, just one year later the Cole and Strasburg contracts would have totally increased his market value. Dude's won 2 consecutive CY's. They actually signed him at the perfect time.

I agree with everything else you said, though. I"m not a fan of long-term contracts and new-breed GM's have wised up to them.

NiCK (Crush) 02-17-2020 10:47 PM

The Astros stuff is pissing me off more and more each day. These guys are coming across so terribly and I just donít get it. How do they not understand how bad this all is?

And Iíve never been one to hate a commissioner of a professional sports league, but Manfred is so clearly not the man for this job. He doesnít even seem to like baseball.

The fact that the first pitcher to plunk one of these Astros hitters is going to be suspended more than any single Astros player was for cheating is absolutely insane.


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